Glenn Caldwell of NAL: "The Dawg On-It Trucking Pawedcast" Episode #8

Glenn Caldwell of NAL Insurance Inc joins Safety Dawg and we get into it. WSIB alternative coverage, Driver Inc model and do they qualify for coverage and more.

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Glenn can be reached via:
Email: gcaldwell@nalinsurance.com

Connect on LinkedIn

www.nalinsurance.com

www.healthytrucker.com

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Transcript

Safety Dawg, Chris Harris:   0:00
all right. This week's guest is Glenn Caldwell of Ending L. Glenn and I are talking about insurance insurance coverage, third party insurance coverage during this cove in 19 crisis and just generally speaking, why owner operators could use a product that replaces W S I. B. So with that, let's get into the interview. Welcome the dog on it. Trucking podcast. I'm your host, Chris Harris, Safety Dog. And when it comes to trucking safety, the dog is on it. I am so privileged to be able to sit and discuss with a variety of trucking influencers, a wide range of trucking topics, and you get to hear their perspective on an enormous range of issues. Please, if you would show your appreciation for the podcast by leaving he thumbs up a comment. A rating, depending on the platform of your choice that you're listening or watching with it would help me so much raise the profile of this show and bring it and make it available to even Mawr listeners. So thank you very much. I appreciate you and your time that that takes. Now let's get on with they claim Welcome to the dog on a trucking show. How in the heck are

NAL's Glenn Caldwell:   1:34
you? I'm doing well there, Chris. How are you doing?

Safety Dawg, Chris Harris:   1:37
Pretty good. You know, we're probably like you all locked up in the house. And, uh, Cove in 19 were in the middle of

NAL's Glenn Caldwell:   1:48
this simple isolation is hitting everybody. We just got back from Mexico on the Friday the 13th and so we've been kind of been locked down, move for a couple weeks ourselves. So I'm hoping by the end of it, my wife's my wife's still likes me.

Safety Dawg, Chris Harris:   2:05
Yeah. I mean, I guess in some ways I'm blessed because my wife's business I get to come here to the office where she's a dental hygienist. So she's been closed for two weeks already. So there's low traffic in this building at all. And I'm the only one in the building, so I get to leave the house, come to my office, didn't way office in the basement all by myself, but it's good, you know? OK, Yeah. Hey, tell us, Glenn Kalbe everybody about yourself, what you've been doing, and I'm really interested in your history of trucking insurance or the product that you are selling to independent operators.

NAL's Glenn Caldwell:   2:50
Okay. Well, Thank you, Chris. First. Well, thanks for having me on this. I've been watching the episodes and they're very informative. Um, maybe give you the history of any L and L's been in business now since 1955. We were basically an auto club company that provided the auto club in insurance programs to small businesses, farmers, that type of thing. In the early eighties, we started a roadside assistance business where we provided roadside assistance to a lot of the auto manufacturers. Companies like Lexus and maybe Jay. Where are BMW? Pretty well. Every vehicle today has some kind of auto club was back then as well. In the mid eighties, we sat down with the number of truck drivers to develop plans specifically to help them Oaks. It really didn't have anything. So NL Truck division was formed and that was sold. And it was in a truck division which became National Truck League. That was sold in 92. I actually went to work for Intel in 1994 and then just I just came back to me. Now it's been 10 years.

Safety Dawg, Chris Harris:   3:56
Yes, I know. You've been back for what seems like a long time. I mean, we go back to your NTL days. That's when I first met you when I was with teen Teen. We were purchasing the product from NTL in those days.

NAL's Glenn Caldwell:   4:11
So what was that? Not be what he

Safety Dawg, Chris Harris:   4:14
a long time ago,

NAL's Glenn Caldwell:   4:16
we I was dark haired and you had actual

Safety Dawg, Chris Harris:   4:20
here that it was a long, long time ago. It's 25 years, maybe. Well, get a timeline, a good history, a good relationship. I think you and I have developed, You know, one of the things I we were talking earlier about Cove in 19. I was so happy that you and any Elke moat with a clear and concise statement as to coverage for owner operators during this pandemic. Can you elaborate on that? Are owner operators covered?

NAL's Glenn Caldwell:   5:00
Yes. So we when this first hit the hit the press and stuff, we were very proactive and reached out to our provider to make sure that our drivers were covered. We've always seen them is in essential workers and you know what they do for us. You got to say thank you because you know, a lot of us air locked up in their homes and we're still getting our things because of the drivers that air out, you know, picking up and delivering for us. And, you know, they're they're risking things, right? So yeah, they Kobe it is covered providing they don't have symptoms before they go to the States. And I think a lot of the providers last week that originally has said, Hey, we're not gonna cover Corbett. 19 has changed basically saying, because it isn't an essential service now And, um, Aziz, long as a driver, doesn't have symptoms going into the States, they're going to be covered under the policy. I

Safety Dawg, Chris Harris:   5:54
think that's because do we need trucking rate at the moment? You know? Well, it

NAL's Glenn Caldwell:   6:01
is. It's, you know, the travel advisory was the big thing that a lot of the policies had, which are Plan does not have a travel advisory based on government coming in and saying, Hey, don't travel. We've got a travel advisory for Warren. A few other things, but this was this was pretty kinky. So, you know, we're recommending because there's still someone certainly out there with with some of the other individual plans. I think all the group companies have said, Hey, No. We are gonna cover this off there again if somebody doesn't have symptoms going into the U. S. But I think the key thing for a fleet to do it is if they have a bunch of individual plans out there, they need to speak to the broker on get no confirmation that it is going to cover them. Yeah,

Safety Dawg, Chris Harris:   6:49
I would think that would be a huge undertaking, because there are, You know, any Ellis is one company, but you have a great deal of competition. There's a number of other companies out there that provide similar or pretend to provide similar coverage. However, is this? I was just so happy that NTL key or sorry, n a l chemo right at the beginning and said, No owner operators, you are covered in the states. Keep trucking. Yes. Yeah, because there was a lot of negative news. I think I told you my daughter works on a cruise ship, So there's a lot of people on cruise ships and stuff that we're facing travel insurance that all of a sudden they weren't They didn't have travel insurance.

NAL's Glenn Caldwell:   7:37
Absolutely pretty scary week last week. I think a lot of that's been cleared up with key factor is Hey, you know, if you're uncertain or be certain by calling your broker and your insurance company to get verification, I think there are still a few out there that are that may be in the in the gray area.

Safety Dawg, Chris Harris:   7:56
I just wanted to say thanks that Excuse me any l for tackling it. Head head on right at the beginning. Um, in answering that question, one of the things that I'm really proud of, any L Of course I have no affiliation with any L But is your healthy trucker program As we get through this epidemic, our health has become really important. And I don't even know how many years ago did any l start the Healthy

NAL's Glenn Caldwell:   8:26
trucker program I get seven years ago, Um, kind of the main reason we got into it. Waas for TC A members and a time we were down and there was at the convention 90% of what they talked about was the health of the driver. At that conference. A number that came up was pretty scary. Was the number 61. Any idea what that significance of that number has to our industry

Safety Dawg, Chris Harris:   8:52
today is at the age of the truck driver.

NAL's Glenn Caldwell:   8:56
It's got to do with a okay. It's sadly, it's the average life span of a long haul driver in the U. S. Rate. That's a Harvard study. Which there again, we've been debated on that study. Uh, some people say it's 62 63. Whatever. What? The Harvard study basically said the average life span of a long haul trucker in the U. S. Is 61 which is sad because the average American male lived to be 76 so there's a huge shortfall. So we got pretty worried. Our average age of our client is about 55 you know, we noticed that claims were kind of going through the roof, and a lot of that had to do with the health of the owner. Operator writes eso their lifestyle, some occult disease, and if you sit for long periods of time, you have the same risk of heart attack and stroke is somebody that smokes. So think about a driver that sitting for long periods of time and smoking at the same time that the risks are are even higher. So are our goal with healthy trucker West to basically get a driver more active and eating out here. And, you know, we started off with you may remember the fifth Challenge we did for a lot of athletes where drivers would then staff would get fit. Minutes. We have walking challenges. I know we did it down at T. C. A conference where we had all the executives competing. And when we came back, we decided to run a block around the world challenge with with the entire industry, and we thought we'd probably do it in about three months. We have so many people involved in it. I did it, I think, 23 days. So that was pretty cool. But the challenge with the Fitbit with the driver is this. You know, companies were putting up prizes, a lot of time, big prices, and probably the Fitbit is It's not necessarily steps that they were getting, but the vibration of the steering wheel was through a the fifth it off. Eso guys forgetting 30,000 steps and not getting out of the trucks. We kind of scrapped the idea, even though it was a great challenge that we had tons of people involved in and got all kinds of press on it. We got involved a little bit later. Drivers were saying, I just want to know I want to know how to eat properly. So we created an APP called Healthy Team. Drivers would take pictures of the meals, diet, exercise and post. It had a leader board, probably the leaderboard. Waas. They were getting points based on an actual picture, not actually on it on having a healthy item in that picture. So we back. That idea kind of got scrapped, even though it went very well for most. So now we just coach them through email and videos and on the phone. Just small changes over time is what Andrea says will create last teaching. So it's not a diet. It's a it's a It's

Safety Dawg, Chris Harris:   11:54
a lifestyle change, which I gotta believe that's huge. If you could manage to change a person's life style, it is. It's for life. And that is going to, as you said, What's the average age of truckers now?

NAL's Glenn Caldwell:   12:10
Well, you were looking at 55 to 57 depending on what study that you're looking at. What? Uh, yeah, so it's Ah, it's not just it's not just physical health. Um, you know, a healthy a driver mentally and physically is going to be a safer driver. As you know, it's gonna have fewer accidents. They're gonna lose less time from work due to injury illness, and they're basically going to stick around the industry longer. So you know, our partnership with Morneau ship Powell has been another big thing where we can get give them access to counselling 24 7 for things to do with stress, depression, anxiety. You know that the drivers got something on his mind. He's got nothing, what miles to think of that issues, getting them

Safety Dawg, Chris Harris:   12:51
in getting them. It's really interesting because I didn't know in the middle of this code in 19 Crisis over having that you offered mental health. Uh, you know, counseling because I'm sure there's a lot of people I know. I'm feeling the stress, you know, I'm self employed. My wife is self employed. We cut no income. At the moment, it's It can be a stressful time.

NAL's Glenn Caldwell:   13:19
Absolutely. You

Safety Dawg, Chris Harris:   13:20
know, owner operators or self employed. If they're working at the moment, that's one thing. But there's a lot of factories that have shut down as well. And of course I could cause a different type of stress because not all of trucking is going crazy. At the moment. Food guys are in some of the other segments.

NAL's Glenn Caldwell:   13:38
Yeah. Can you sell

Safety Dawg, Chris Harris:   13:39
just the lesser weight on that?

NAL's Glenn Caldwell:   13:41
You know, And there again, I'm not an expert when it comes to mental health by any means, but it is a very challenging time for everybody right now. So having access to a program to rather any AP through your work, a lot of companies have that where you get access to counselling 24 7 We can call and speak to somebody. That's very important way. Need way, really stressed the importance of, you know, if you've got something on your mind, obviously talk to somebody, not just don't talk to your just a lot of them that want don't want to speak to their dispatch. They want to speak to somebody that they can get some help with. I didn't

Safety Dawg, Chris Harris:   14:26
realize that was available. That's awesome.

NAL's Glenn Caldwell:   14:29
Yeah, So a lot of a lot of their most most employees driver packages would have access to E a piece on employee Assistance program. We do have some of our fleets that have purchased the extended version of Healthy trucker. That does include the mental wellness as well. Um, you know, we got another unique one that we're working on is well, where a driver could get access to speak to a doctor out of the cab of the truck, which is kind of cool instead of trying to, you know, that they can't find a place to park their truck at a clinic. So this is where they It's like a Skype call where they can speak to a Canadian doctor and talk about their symptoms. And certain prescriptions can be written for that as well. So that's a plan that we're kind of working out as well. It's just Sorry. I hope that didn't sound like

Safety Dawg, Chris Harris:   15:19
a pitch. Yeah, no, no. But like order operators, they need, um Well, answer this. Why do owner operators need coverage? 1/3 party insurance, such as what you provide, but not necessarily just yours. But why do they need the coverage?

NAL's Glenn Caldwell:   15:39
So it's good question. Now you're talking about like the ws. I'd be alternative solutions. Yes. Okay. Soon in Ontario and Quebec owner robbers that on their vehicles may their truck have an opportunity for profit loss. Have the opportunity of opting out of us side The CSS tease A little different, but in Ontario there's a form called in 11 49 a. We're 11 57 a that are operative completes. They send it in with their documents of ownership articles of incorporation on signed by both the fleet and the air operator. They get a letter back from the board that teams their status is independent, and then they got three options they could buy personal covers. Three W S I. B, which not a lot do. Because of the costs. I think they have access to private coverage, which would be us or other companies or really W s I. B doesn't care if they do get another plan in place because all they've said is your independent now have independent status there for your offer. Us. Key thing is only one raptor that complete that form cannot better. All other drivers, regardless of the contract, still require WS site be under under the act. The other thing is, when you look at why you put coverage in places. Uh, the auto policy has something called statutory accident benefits. So primary insurance premiums are are sky high as it is. So the last thing in if your operator is disabled in a truck related vehicle are accidents. They have the option of filing a claim under something called the statue to react. So things like medical loss of earnings. That type of thing is, is all is all available to its Keeney that when they're buying the package, they look for something that's we need to be long term, not just short term, something that's gonna be a long term, very similar to what W. S. I. B will provide key factors. You wanna have something that's gonna be first player, meaning it's not going to direct the policy or direct the benefit back to the carriers auto policy, uh, and get something that's gonna cover stable pre existing conditions, especially with the whole Corbett stuff. So I think that was maybe a longer answer, but

Safety Dawg, Chris Harris:   17:54
but you brought up two things. I want a big a little bit deeper into first payers. Can you explain that in layman's terms so that an owner operator can understand what first payer means and the effect that if you're not a if the insurance policy isn't the first pay e or however you properly say it, What? How does that affect the owner operator?

NAL's Glenn Caldwell:   18:19
OK, so, uh, you know, most policies when it comes to disability benefits are set up his first pair. There are some that are set up a second parent, meaning If you have other insurance that you can go to IE, the carriers auto policy, then they're gonna push you to that policy. As I said, most of the companies that are selling doing Raptors today, with the exception of things one or maybe two, have have first peer status. A lot of them, however, have second pair status when it comes to medical. So things like Ezio Cairo that the major things when it comes to vehicle related accidents, number of them have second pair clause that would actually push that back to the carriers on policy. Where it's been very troubling, is obviously captives insurance insurance companies that they're responsible for the 1st 10 to 50 to $100,000 thes thes air getting hit by the these medical claims, which it's it's It's the fleets money or or the insurance companies money as well. So that's that could be a challenge.

Safety Dawg, Chris Harris:   19:24
That's all in interest. I mean, my background was over public in the old days. I know we were always concerned about these third party insurance providers like yours who were first pain because it would get thrown back on ours. And then we have recoup through premium from the trucking company.

NAL's Glenn Caldwell:   19:47
Yeah, biggest. When you look at is is travel medical. If there are some providers that are excess only meaning they would kick it back to the carriers on a policy. And that's where the bills could be substantial. You know, we had one built one guy that was involved in an accident in Texas that I think it was getting out of his truck and he got hit by another vehicle was in a coma for a while. The bill was well over 700,000 U. S. Plus, he's got with all his benefits from Bennett from weekly indemnity or monthly indemnity and medical. It's well over a 1,000,000 now. If our policy would have said excess, that would have all gone back to the carriers auto policy and the trucking company only had 23 trucks. So 23 owner operators. So that would have been devastating toe to the to the truck insurance provider, right? They wouldn't have been able to get insurance an

Safety Dawg, Chris Harris:   20:43
insurance in today's market. I'm sure you're well aware of it. For the trucking industry, it is a challenge to keep your premiums under control. The other part of the question besides, first pay you you alluded to it, but you didn't come right out and say it. The driver ink bottle. That's very popular today. If I am a driver that's incorporated, I'm getting t self employed. You I qualified. Opt out of ws IBM purchase 1/3 party equivalent or something similar to W S I.

NAL's Glenn Caldwell:   21:18
D. So it is. Does the driving driver on the truck?

Safety Dawg, Chris Harris:   21:23
Uh, no. I would say the company owns

NAL's Glenn Caldwell:   21:26
the truck. Do they pay the fuel? The majority of expenses. Do they have an opportunity for profit loss?

Safety Dawg, Chris Harris:   21:33
Uh, no. There there basically a driver that's incorporated that's receiving dreck paid. You know they're not paying for the repairs. They're not paying for the fuel.

NAL's Glenn Caldwell:   21:47
Soto opt out of Ws. I'd be in the province of Ontario. They have to be able to complete the 11. 49 a. That states that the only truck that pay the fuel, they have an opportunity for profit and loss. And they don't get a T for a And none of that falls into place for Dr Rink director. So they do. They're covered under W S I. V. They have to be covered under.

Safety Dawg, Chris Harris:   22:09
Yeah, so and that's a really good point. Hopefully, people understand. Dr Arinc basically are not eligible for this. And you mentioned the tea for a Hopefully companies are issuing one required with the correct form to be doing, you know, because Glenn, you and I pay taxes. And of course, we want everyone to pay their fair share of taxes. What is legally required. So

NAL's Glenn Caldwell:   22:38
President and C. T A and an O. T. Have done a great job is bringing this to the forefront, and there's been a lot of action that's taken place on, you know, we'll see how that plays out this

Safety Dawg, Chris Harris:   22:51
year. Aziz, we head into the middle of 2020 even 2021. I think it's gonna be a long road to Teoh Hammer this Driver Inc model the way. See Ta would like it. Uh, but it is an ongoing battle and it's going to continue, which is fine. Plan to be respectful of your time. Like I think. What haven't we talked about yet That we should be discussing,

NAL's Glenn Caldwell:   23:26
You know, you know, obviously the cold bits of the huge top. That's that's one key thing. You know, scab athletes speak to their broker, you know, when you're allowing your own Robert er stopped at A W S I B. Our recommendation is to do something through settlement deduction, obviously, to ensure not coverage is not only purchased, but more importantly, maintained. That's that's kind of the biggest thing right now. And it's we're recommending fleets come up with a minimum standard of coverage of what coverage should look like to ensure or reduce the risk and exposure as a pleat. So they're not gonna have these claims filed against the auto policy. That's kind of the big thing. Um, no retention. We're not sure what's gonna happen in the next little while with with the economy. So sometimes I wanna raptors are the first to kind of get laid off. We're hoping that that doesn't take place, obviously. But you know, if we can get this economy turned around quickly, I think everybody's gonna kind of be maintain what's going on right now within the industry.

Safety Dawg, Chris Harris:   24:35
I'm like you. I'm very hopeful. Like, you know, I do see a hit to the economy, obviously, when so many of us are shut down and hunkered in our homes. But when those restrictions are released, I think there's gonna be a pent up demand. I also think there's gonna be some huge changes going forward, just, you know, and I'm thinking specifically of people now getting groceries delivered, for instance. Oh, I didn't know. I knew it was available before, but I never really used it. And then they use it and they Damn, this is convenient. I'm going to continue to use this. So I think there's gonna be significant changes coming forward because we're all doing things. You know that this podcast was up and running before Corbett started. But it's relatively really think you're going to see a flood of other podcasts like this come up because all of a sudden we realize, Hey,

NAL's Glenn Caldwell:   25:31
we can do this virtually Yes, 100%. Where I've already started doing virtual meetings now with fleets, because our our businesses a lot a lot of its face to face where they want to see you. And they want to kind of talk and ask the questions, the proper questions. We're starting to do more of the under zoom is what we're using. But there's all kinds of things that you could do to stay connected.

Safety Dawg, Chris Harris:   25:58
Yeah, even my business model. I'm wondering how much time face to face time I need to have now. Anyway, It's all gonna be interesting. We're all going to get through this. It's going to be an interesting period of time. But I'm I guess I'm an optimist. I know we will get through it and we will absolutely get, you know and well, we've been

NAL's Glenn Caldwell:   26:24
around long enough. We've seen the good, the bad and the ugly a few times. So Uh huh we know. We know. It's going, you know, we're hunkering down. We know what we're kind of prepared from what's gonna take place and almost people. Aarhus. Well,

Safety Dawg, Chris Harris:   26:37
I think everybody has Glenn, I want to thank you for coming on. It was a great interview. I took away again First pay E. I learned about that. I didn't know about the healthy trucker and in some cases, the mental health. But it also extends to if your company has purchased that. And I think during this crisis that's a huge thing and way touched on the Driver Inc model and why owner operators really need a covered third party payee coverage lake and then the l product. But as you mentioned, there are a number of things that the companies I like the idea of settlement deduction because that way, you know that has been paid for. And I think as we come out of this thing, some people will be looking for ways to cut expenses

NAL's Glenn Caldwell:   27:32
well with the struggles now where things have slowed down a little bit, sometimes insurance is the first thing to go, and you, you know I hate it. It's difficult for a fleet when they're trying to gather certificates of insurance every month for every quarter to ensure coverage has been maintained. Its do through settlement deduction. You come up with that minimum standard, I can send you a copy of what what we use on a lot of the insurance companies were using from that minimum standard. If you want to share it with, uh, with listeners and, uh, yeah, just, uh, you know, it's in a way, it's tough love saying, Hey, guys, we want you to have protection. We want you to have a specific criteria. Here's one that meets it. If you know if you've got one that does meet this correct here, you know I all me and show it and will allow you to keep it. That's what we're suggesting pleats. Eso. They're not necessarily forcing them to take one specific, but force them to take a minimum

Safety Dawg, Chris Harris:   28:29
criteria. I think that would be great. What I'll do is is that the minimum criteria is out on your website.

NAL's Glenn Caldwell:   28:39
We've got, got it an article on my website. But I've got it in a document that basically shows who can opt open Kant's what to look for. And then you know what the minimum criteria should look like.

Safety Dawg, Chris Harris:   28:51
All right, I'll figure out a way to put it a link to somewhere whether it be my website or yours. Okay, so that people can, if they want it they can click on the link below. That will be in the show notes. And that's a freebie from Glen Sweet. Alright, Banks. Glad I appreciate it so much.

NAL's Glenn Caldwell:   29:10
All right. Appreciate it, Chris. Uh, stay healthy, everybody. You know, stay healthy, wash your hands, do it. Everything we got to do and, you know, let's stay isolated. That's not really where we're gonna get this thing

Safety Dawg, Chris Harris:   29:21
kicked. All the best, buddy. Thanks.

NAL's Glenn Caldwell:   29:24
All right, Take care. Thanks.

Safety Dawg, Chris Harris:   29:26
I hope you love the show as much as I did. That was a great interview. And I think, please leave us a like a thumbs up. A review, a comment, a rating if it is so much. And I do really appreciate and join us again next week for another exciting injured.