Trucking Risk and Insurance Podcast

Empowering Small Fleets: The Future of Trucking with TBDC & Hammad Hassan

• John Farquhar & Chris Harris • Season 2 • Episode 91

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Exploring Trucking Careers with Hammad Hassan | Trucking Risk and Insurance Podcast

In this episode of the Trucking Risk and Insurance Podcast, we're joined by Hammad Hassan from the Toronto Business Development Centre. Hammad discusses the 'Explore Trucking as a Career' program, a fast-track initiative designed to support Ontario's economy by addressing the truck driver shortage. He explains the eligibility criteria, funding details, and the program's impact on both large and small trucking companies. We also learn about TBDC's efforts to educate new entrants in the trucking industry and their collaboration with community organizations to increase awareness and solve the driver shortage problem. Tune in to find out how this program is making a difference and how employers and potential drivers can get involved.

Hammad Hassan
Email: hammad@tbdc.com
https://exploretruckingcareers.com/

00:00 Introduction to the Podcast and Guest
00:39 Overview of Toronto Business Development Centre
01:46 Explore Trucking as a Career Program
05:09 Eligibility Criteria for the Program
08:30 Employer Collaboration and Funding
13:43 Addressing the Driver Shortage
15:01 Educational Initiatives and Community Outreach
28:52 Conclusion and Contact Information

John Farquhar
Summit Risk Solutions: summitrisksolutions.ca
1 226 802-2762
John@summitrisksolutions.ca


Chris Harris
Safety Dawg Inc: safetydawg.com
Chris@SafetyDawg.com
1 905 973 7056



Keeping it Safety Dawg Simple!
#trucksafety #truckinsurance #truckpodcast

Do you need a "Truck Driver Safety Policy?" Get it today! https://safetydawg.com/policy

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1:

This week we are welcoming Hammad Hassan from the Toronto Business Development Centre and we're talking about truck drivers and development. Join us. Trucking Risk and Insurance Podcast is next! Welcome to the Trekking Risk and Insurance Podcast. Hammad, welcome to the Trucking Risk and Insurance Podcast. Can you, uh, say a couple of words about yourself? Who are you and who are you representing?

Hammad Hassan:

With pleasure, guys. So my name is Hammad Hassan. Uh, I work with Toronto Business Development Centre as a program manager. So brief introduction, Toronto Business Development Centre. It's a not for profit business incubator and been supporting new businesses to scale and establish in Canada for over 30 years. TBDC is managing several programs and the one that I'm managing is called Explore Trucking Careers and that's the reason we are we are together to have more conversation with this program because I think this is a fantastic opportunity. And people and trucking company out there, they don't know much about this program.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions:

No, I was going to say it's, it's new to us already.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1:

And we're going to try to spread the word.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions:

Yeah.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1:

So this program currently, um, so I just want our listeners and viewers to know this is something brand new. It is in Ontario only, but other jurisdictions could copy the idea. So if you're an American or a Canadian outside of Ontario, You should be listening up. So, Ahmad, introduce the program. What is Explore Trucking as a Career?

Hammad Hassan:

So, guys, Explore Trucking as a Career, I'm going to say it's a fast track initiative to support Ontario's economy. Now, let's talk about trucking. Trucking is one of the main pillars of the economy. And then, uh, why this program came into existence. So there was a lot of chat between trucking companies and the stakeholders, the driver shortage, uh, which is, which is according to the recent article that I was reading is going to get chronic. Moving forward, uh, so in order to tackle that problem. Uh, this program came into existence. Now, uh, how TBDC, uh, you know, got an opportunity to run this program. TBDC, uh, uh, you know, uh, did a project in the past with a few trucking companies and got a chance to collaborate with Ontario Trucking Association. And then that's how, uh, we got nominated to run this program and got selected. One of the main reasons that they want, uh, uh, an unbiased body to run this program, because there was, there was a lot, lot of, I'm going to say, uh, issue of being a biased approach, so they wanted an unbiased body to administer the program so all the trucking companies can get equal. Uh, service and, uh, FAT grant to play with. Uh, now, in a nutshell, what program does is, uh, we provide trucking companies with financial assistance. In order to train and retrain new and existing drivers. Uh, so for example, I'm running a company and I have needs. I need to hire drivers, but I interviewed 20 drivers. I'm looking to hire five out of 20. I like only three. Now, two drivers out of those, those five are missing a part of skill. For example, they're not good at backing or they don't know how to cross water, but they're capable to cross water. That's where our program comes in and provides financial assistance to these trucking companies. To render this training to those folks so they can land a job. So we don't make drivers. We don't do melt. We train and retrain drivers. And other example is Chris, uh, Chris has a company running 20 trucks. And then what happened? Chris got a new contract to haul bulk liquid. Now, Chris has drivers, but they, they, all they know is to run dry van. Now Chris needs to train them in order to haul bulk. Now our program is going to come in and help Chris to retrain those drivers to gain the skill so they can hit the ground running. So this is in a nutshell, uh, we will talk in more detail, uh, you know, uh, when, when the time comes.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1:

Interesting. So now you said 1 thing that I wanted to make sure I heard correctly. This applies to, um, unlicensed drivers and licensed drivers, or just those that already have a, uh, CDL commercial driver's license.

Hammad Hassan:

Really, really good question, Chris. Yes. So, one of the, let's talk about the eligibility criteria. One of the eligibility criteria is to have your AZ or DZ license prior to joining this program. As I said,

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1:

For everywhere else in the world, that's, and AZ is a class one and the terminology in Ontario, um, and DZ is a straight track. So, sorry, Hammad, please.

Hammad Hassan:

No problem. So, the program, let's, let's, let's get back to the eligibility. So there is a requirement on both ends, employer and employees. So, this is a provincial funding, so jurisdiction is entire Ontario. So if the trucking company is domiciled within Ontario, can participate in this program. Now, eligibility criteria in terms of, you know, trainees, participants, employees. This program is just for company drivers. When I say company drivers, people on payroll, not for owner operators. Uh, they, they must be Canadian citizen, or we are also working with, uh, permanent residency holders and, uh, uh, uh, refugees that recently came from Ukraine. So, if you have traveled under a couit, you can participate in this program. Uh, must be 21 and over, and again, must be domiciled in Ontario. These are the few requirements that we look for in order to, uh, you know, register employers and employees. Now, as a gatekeeper, this is my responsibility to ensure. That, you know, the compliance is 100%, for which we have different methods to ensure all the employers and trucking companies out there, they're following the procedure. Uh, now we have been, we've been running this program. Sorry, Chris. Go ahead, I know you were trying to ask me a question.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1:

Well, no, I was just going to regurgitate, reiterate whatever the correct word is. You got to be 21. You've got to have your tractor trailer license already and you're going to be on payroll. Those are, and you got to be Canadian or permanent resident or. There's something special for those who came from Ukraine because of the crap that's happening over there at the moment. But, so good, I like the exception for the Ukrainians. I'm not Ukrainian. I just feel awful. Sorry. Um, and then from an employer, uh, and, and, oh, sorry, you have to be from Ontario. An employer has to be from Ontario, obviously paying drivers on payroll. What else would an employer do or in order to qualify?

Hammad Hassan:

In order to qualify. Yes. So now we, we collaborate with employers on three different levels. Uh, there were certain employers, they have means, uh, means like they're hiring people and they have training means as well, and they have their own assets. So in this, this scenario, what we do, we collaborate with them. They're using their own resources once the training is rendered, uh, once the people are employed. We reimburse them money. Now, before I move forward, let me talk about the funding, like the money that's we're

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1:

not interested in the money. Heck

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions:

yeah, everybody will do this for free.

Hammad Hassan:

This is probably

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1:

the most important part of the conversation as an employer. What's in it for me?

Hammad Hassan:

Yes, exactly, exactly. So, uh, there are two parts of training that, uh, that, uh, you know, we have, there's light touch and there's full service. So the max funding is $4,000 per driver. Now, in order to call her for the max funding, the training needs to be two weeks and over. So once you, uh, hit the two week mark, it's an automatic, you get 4,000 for that driver. Now, if your training is less than two weeks, but more than a week, we call it light touch. And for that, uh, the funding amount is 2, 000 per driver, uh, that employers can apply for. Uh, so, uh, let's get back to the second tier. So this is the first one. Uh, you know, uh, trucking companies, they have their, they, they have their own recruitment and training means. Now, second tier is trucking companies with means, but they are, they don't have means to train people. And they have either a third party or they're looking to collaborate with the training body who can do the training on their behalf. What happens in that scenario? Uh, we actually sit down with those folks, uh, we tell them because this is the second year we're running this program with our information that we have collected, you know, you're in this area and these schools are amazing and they have Phenomenal reputation. They do everything by the book. They, they are meeting the standard. So we try to connect them, the trucking company with the training school and become like more like the middle body to make things happen. Now, the training is being delivered by the school. What happens to the employer? Well, first, once they identify people, they invest on that people, they get trained, come back, get employed. And that's when I tell them, Hey, Send me an invoice and I'll refund you, you know, X, Y, Z amount that you spend in order to train these folks. Now, the third tier is, uh, uh, trucking companies, they want to hire a driver, but they don't have means to recruit and train. For that, we do have resources that we can share with them in order to recruit and train folks. And then once they're employed after, you know, the entire process. We give them reimbursement against their efforts. So these are three types that we are working with recently and then Uh in the market the most i'm going to say 80 percent of employers that i'm working with Uh, they do have their own means but there is there are smaller companies now I am trying to target smaller companies so I can Support them as well because the big guns they have, they're all already established, they're doing great work to support economy. Now it's, it's for, for personally, I think it's, it's time to strengthen smaller fleets so they can become the part of the pillar.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions:

Right. Yeah. So I was gonna say some of those smaller fleets that don't have the resources that they need and whatnot. So I noticed on the, uh, Explore Trucking Careers website, uh, down the bottom of one of the pages. You've got a number of affiliates. So, uh, and yes, in there is some large motor carriers that I'm very much well aware of, and they do have some really good programs. So this is a good incentive for them. To work through you guys, um, for that hiring practice, the training process and whatnot, and at the same time, reap the benefit of a grant to help compensate the coverage and costs of that training process.

Hammad Hassan:

And no, 100%, you're absolutely right on, John. Uh, what this program has done to the bigger fleets, they, we like with this, with the help of this program, now their, their capacity to intake people has been increased by, I'm going to say at least 50%.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions:

Now

Hammad Hassan:

just imagine a bigger company trying to hire 50 people at one time, but they weren't able to hire those 50 people. Because 20 out of 50 were lacking certain skills. So, this program had helped them in order to solve that problem.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions:

That's

Hammad Hassan:

just not it. Like, indirectly, you know, We are, we are trying to solve the driver shortage problem with this program. You know, this is our second year into the program and we have seen, you know, enormous, uh, I'm going to say, uh, advancement where the trucking companies are satisfied. Now, when we did our first year. The influx was like crazy. We got, we got over 500 applications. Wow. Yes. So, uh, to a point where we had to, we had to pick and choose, like we told all the employers, we are overwhelmed. That's an excellent response. But now we're going to put a, put a stop because we just want to ensure that, you know, we are not, we are not setting up wrong expectations, uh, you know, with the participants. Now, second year. It's the same thing. I'm getting a tremendous amount of response from uh, the previous employers that I'm working with. But personally, I really wanna, wanna target, you know, the smaller and the mid size, mid size fleets. Cause personally, I think that's gonna, it's, it's gonna give them more benefit. And it's going to, it's going to help the economy in a better way. Right. We are not, we're not just stopping here. So now, because the, the part of the program is more like employer, employer based, the things are, you know, uh, bit, uh, streamlined what we have started doing, Chris and John, uh, what we did last year. So we went to Covenant House. So Covenant House is a not for profit charity organization. They, they help, uh, kids at risk. So we took 20, 20 kiddos and we, we took them to one of the employers to just to educate them with trucking. So we did a simple flyer. Hey, you want to become a truck driver? You want to get more information? How to become a truck driver? Sign up. So we've got 20 kiddos. We took them to one of the employers. That session was phenomenal. Because what happened after that session, out of 20 kiddos, five approached right away to the employer because they had one of their trucking school. And we left, what do we do to get into this industry? Because people out there, I, I believe, uh, newcomers, uh, and I'm going to say A new person entering industry doesn't have ample knowledge about trucking, they get in, they don't like it, they get out. It's a revolving door.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions:

Now

Hammad Hassan:

what's causing that door to revolve is lack of education. So our, my next initiative that we are working on, and we have already partnered with over 20 community organizations, we're going to spread education about trucking. So again, same, uh, theme. We are gonna fly, we're gonna make a flyer. Hey, you want to become a truck driver? What it takes to become a truck driver? Want to educate yourself? We did a session yesterday with one, one of the community organization called, uh, the uh, the community charity group and we have every week once we're gonna do that session after collecting these uh, these individuals, we are gonna do a boot camp where i'm gonna invite all the employers From different parts of Ontario, they're going to sit down with the industry experts. They're going to sit down with the drivers. They're going to ask questions. What a typical day looks like in a truck driver's life. How it feels like to be away from home for five to ten days. Right, right. Before going to a trip. The, the things that I need to do and the things that, that I don't need to do. So all that stuff personally, I think it's lacking. That's why the door is revolving. Now, this initiative, it's more like in pilot phase, but I'm really hopeful and I'm really, uh, hoping that, you know, our, our, this minor effort is going to make some impact on that revolving door and we would be able to solve a problem to an extent. No magic, it's just like pure efforts.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions:

Right. So, so I got a question then. So, so, uh, Toronto Business Development Centre, uh, which is behind this program, um, you're kind of doing this type of approach with other types of career choices. So, so you're not new to this overall process. This is not something new you're getting into. The trucking segment is something that you're, that is newer to you guys to get into.

Hammad Hassan:

That is correct. Yes.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions:

Right. So, right. Sorry. So, the bonus part is all that you've learned in all these other careers and what's made it successful to get people into those areas and careers. You're just taking that concept and that development, bringing it over here to say, well, let's apply that same concept here with trucking.

Hammad Hassan:

Right on John. That is correct. Cause we have seen the success. Yeah. And we want to replicate, uh, that success, uh, in other domains. So I believe in. Sharing the best practices with everyone. So, so

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions:

this is great. So I, I, I'm sorry, I get it here and I don't want to take away from the trucking aspect here, but if you found somebody that came out and went, well, trucking's not really for me, and you start to see what some of their interests are, you could be going, well, hang on. What about this career role? Or what about this path that we could put you through and we can work with these employers so you can still help that person, that individual, find a career path that better suits them?

Hammad Hassan:

That is correct. Just to give an example, uh, Toronto Business Development Centre is running a similar program, but it's geared towards construction. So there, when we, when we get, when we do these sessions, we tell people, hey, business trucking, construction, and then, you know, business, what do you want to do? And that's where it solves the problem because you are putting options in front of a person. Now he can, they can choose, he can make an educated decision based on the knowledge. This is the key where it's going to solve that problem. Oh, I, I want to become a truck driver or I don't like it. I want to do something else.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions:

So,

Hammad Hassan:

you know, they do it, they, they live it. And that's when they make the decision. We wanted, we want, we want that to happen. Even before entering the industry, be like, Hey, talk to the driver, talk to, uh, uh, uh, director of operations, talk to her, talk to her dispatcher. Right. Ask all the questions you have. That's not, this is not like what we're doing. We, any entrusted individual who surpasses all these stages, uh, we are going to collaborate with the employers where they're going to go out for a day to basically see the word from a can to see. Uh, a real person driving a truck, you know what, what, uh, problems he or she goes through. So, all these little steps are gonna, are gonna help them out in order to make, uh, Uh, a better choice, and we were hopeful that it's not a part of our program, but our main objective is to solve the problem of the shortage, and I believe that, you know, this is a really good step towards solving that problem. Sure. Sure.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1:

Yeah. And I like the idea of having, uh, giving the, uh, prospective person the ability to go out and actually see the job. And you, because you're gonna, if you're going to be there for six or eight hours or 10 hours or 12, if you really want to be a truck driver or 14, but, um, obviously you're going to have a conversation. With the truck driver and who better to talk to than somebody who's actually doing the job over that period of time.

Hammad Hassan:

100%. I'm going to give an example. Cause my background, I worked at Challenger Motor Freight as a recruiter for like about three years. I lived it. Like I, when I was hiring drivers, the first, like, this is a really funny example, but I want, I, it really fits the scenario. I hired a driver. It was Dry Van. I told him, Hey, yeah, it's a dry van. You've been doing it for how many, five years? Amazing. Yes. So you're going to, it's a dry van. It's a cross border and blah, blah, blah. He went to orientation and guess what happened in orientation? He, he sat there and it was just like, well, I'm looking for local work. And I was like, uh, the trainer called me like, The guy's looking for local work. He doesn't want to go to the U. S. And then I'm like, Hey, you didn't, you didn't tell me before I asked. I told you it's dry land. You're going to go to the U. S. And he goes like, yeah, well I heard, but you know, I didn't pay attention. And then I was like, yeah, so, so that happens. Like people, they, they hear, they don't listen.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions:

So

Hammad Hassan:

that's the, like setting up the stage where they know the difference between a local driver and a cross border driver, you know, how to cross the border is going to solve that, that problem. So, you know, we're, we're pretty excited and working towards that. Yeah. Uh, now, I was reading an article, uh, almost, uh, four weeks ago, it's by Manitoulin, one of the renowned, uh, you know, uh, trucking company. Uh, they, they quoted that Ontario, just Ontario, still lacks 50, 000 drivers. And in the next few years, it's going to get chronic. Now I was talking to another industry expert and I was like, how it's going to get chronic. Cause I do see people, they're getting licenses. They're, they're, they want to become a truck driver. And then he explained me in a really good way that I would like to share. So he works with one of the trucking companies and he goes like all the trucking companies, Have their drivers, so they're not hiring. Now, the problem is, the majority of their labor force, people driving trucks, They are about to retire. When they're going to retire, who's going to fill those spots? That's the problem that they're dealing with

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions:

because those

Hammad Hassan:

folks are experienced. They have been doing it for like over 20 years. So. The company with good foresight, what they've started doing, they've started training their staff. They're going to move that to the superior, to the higher position. And in order to fill their positions, they're going to move things around. And that's how they are hoping that they will be able to cope with the problem. But now the intake right away, it, it, it's not possible for them to fill those positions. It's going to be a process because when driver comes in, once, once a person gets a license, they try, they try, they try, they don't get a job, what they do, they end up doing something else. Now that's a waste, waste of driver done. On top of that, lots of youth out there, they, they're not aware of, you know, selecting schools. Uh, in making, in making, you know, and, uh, I'm going to say educated selection of going to a school. There are like lots of schools out there and they have different standards out there. Once I have decided to become a truck driver, I'm young, I'm new, I want to be like, okay, I'll, I'll go to a school right across the street because I can walk there and I'll get my license and I'll get a job. Now, that's, that school could be a fly by night school. They're not teaching you, you know, what it takes to become a truck driver. They just want to, those schools are just ensuring that, oh, you get your A. Uh, you get your exact endorsement. Amazing. Now go find a job.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions:

Yeah. Great. So you're, you're, you're working with em, with employers. Are you also working with, uh, selective schools and stuff like that to help some of these newcomers, like wanting to get into the industry to find the right school?

Hammad Hassan:

Yeah. So I am on, on, I'm going to say, uh, I'm doing it really, uh, I'm not putting an emphasis, but what I do, I educate them, be like, Hey, you want to become a good perk driver? I want you to do your homework. I don't quote any names. I don't want to quote any names,

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions:

right?

Hammad Hassan:

I want to stay away from that part like sure but do your research There is a MELC program has standards and you need to do certain hours So, you know now you you know what google is. I want you to go and do your own research

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions:

And

Hammad Hassan:

that's helping them now. They're they're going with with a different mindset, uh, john

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions:

They

Hammad Hassan:

know the standards You Like, I'm, I'm not here to market any certain schools, but

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions:

the schools that I'm

Hammad Hassan:

working with, the renowned, I, I have faith in their ability, but again, the people that I'm dealing with, they're from different areas and all these areas have like amazing schools, every area has an amazing school. So I tell them to do, do the research and then spend their money. Don't try to save money because. You're going to be driving, uh, like a 10 ton machine, which is not going to stop. Like, the liability is sky high. The safety situation these days, it's not improving. So, you know, for the sake of your family, for the sake of other people's families, make sure that you're going to the right school and you're getting the right education. You're getting the right, you know, uh, uh, education to deal with any, any, any potential problem, which is going to keep you safe and keep other people safe on the road. Like there are like so many incidents that you guys know, uh, that you guys know where like people end up losing their lives and you know, nothing, no, like all the money of the word cannot replicate a life. Like this is how I look at it. So that's why I tell them, take your time, do your research and go to a better school, which is going to equip you. With proper tools to deal with any given situation. And, you know, these small initiatives that I'm taking, it's not a part of my program, but what I have seen and observed as, as a Canadian citizen. This is what I feel that's my responsibility to actually educate these young fellas to ensure that they're safe and they're making the right choice. Right, right.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1:

I think, honestly, that is a great spot to wrap up the interview. Your contact info is in the show notes down below and check out the website Explore Trucking Careers. That is down in the show notes down below. Hamid, thank you very much. Last word. Did we So employers should reach out. Yes. Possible drivers should reach out. Anything else?

Hammad Hassan:

Good question, Chris. So employers Uh, my details are going to be, you're going to find my details at the bottom, my email and phone number. So because the program is more employer based, the funding goes to the employer. So I would request any interested employer to reach out to me, via phone or email and I'll, I'll be in touch with them right away.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1:

Perfect. And as we said, you're shown or in the show notes down below, we have Hammad's contact info.

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