Trucking Risk and Insurance Podcast

Supply Chain & Driver Retention, What do they have to do with each other?

• John Farquhar & Chris Harris • Season 2 • Episode 36

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Link to the Trucking Human Resources guide: https://truckinghr.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Special-Report-June-2022.pdf

John Farquhar
Summit Risk Solutions: summitrisksolutions.ca
1 226 802-2762
John@summitrisksolutions.ca


Chris Harris
Safety Dawg Inc: safetydawg.com
Chris@SafetyDawg.com
1 905 973 7056


Keeping it Safety Dawg Simple!
#trucksafety #truckinsurance #truckpodcast

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

Hey, how are y'all doing today? Welcome back to the trucking risk and insurance podcast with your host, Chris Harris and John far choir. We're glad you could join us here for today's episode. And, uh, we're, we're gonna talk about a special report that just came out from trucking HR, Canada, and it's a special report and it's talking about threats to the supply chain and economic recovery. So, Hey, let's get into reviewing a report. Let's have a mattered, Chris and I are gonna talk lots.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

And I hit the wrong button. a good morning. And John

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

it's trying. Yep. Morning, Chris. It is another Friday. Yay.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

Yay. And we are talking about this, um, uh, it's called the threats to supply chain and economic recovery. kind, kind of a scary title.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

Well, yeah, it, it really gets your attention when it first pops out there. When I, when I first read it, I was like, what totally crap. What are you talking about?

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

So, well, and here, there, there

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

it is. Johnny. There we go. There you go. Talking HR. So, yeah. Uh, so it it's really interesting. It was a good read. It's not a long read. Uh, no, we'll have a, we'll have a, a link to it in the show notes below, but there's some very interesting information that, uh, you know, Chris and I wanna bring to everybody's attention and things that, uh, wait, we need to pay attention to what's going on.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

Well, it is. And it's talking about the truck driver shortage. Like we've never heard mm-hmm that expression before. Yep. Yep. But I'll, I'll tell you one of the things that, uh, let's get right into it. Cause it kind of jumped out at me. Um, this chart here mm-hmm prior to COVID. Back in, uh, you know, the fourth quarter of 2020, we were short just over 15,000 drivers. Yep. And now Q1 of 22, add another 20 or sorry, 10,000. I can't do my math. Yeah. Uh, we're short 25,000 truck drivers.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

Well, yeah, it's almost doubled in, in just over a year here. It's it's

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

crazy. Well, it's crazy. Yeah. And. It just scares the bejesus out of me. Yeah. Because of course trucking is everything to the supply chain. Yep. If we can't get the goods to not to market, but to the manufacturers and then to market, what's that doing to the economy? Oh, exactly. Big

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

time. Big. So, well, and what I was gonna say, one of the challenges is, is there there's, you know, you've got a number of aging, older drivers, you know, old, old, old farts like us, you know, who are looking to retire, wanting to get out the industry who have been retiring outta the industry and going, Hey, I, I don't wanna keep doing this anymore. I'm getting old. I'm season up, you know, and whatnot. And I've spent 40 years on the road and I wanna spend time with my family now and whatnot. I've got grandkids, maybe all kinds of different things coming on. So. You know, you've got this exit of the, of the industry of older drivers and we haven't been filling those voids for several years. Now. The number of younger drivers coming in are way less than they were 10, 20 years ago.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

Yeah. And I mean, I'm just highlighting a few things here that catch my eye and mm-hmm, the, the part about constant recruiting. I mean, I wonder if we are having this conversation off camera, you had mentioned about, um, somebody you were working with this week that, uh, can't afford to pay their drivers more, but they aren't including the cost of actually recruiting that driver into their calculations. No know, you know, look at constant recruiting. You've read the studies, I've read the studies. It's every driver that you hire. Depending on the study is from five to as high as $15,000. Mm-hmm to recruit a new driver and, you know, the $15,000 one, that one is really interesting. I read a study and it was only 13,000, but I'm adding a couple of grand on for inflation and everything else. Sure, sure. You know what some of the calculations that they don't include is the cost of that truck sitting against the fence. Mm-hmm that you're still making a payment on because very few people own their trucks. You're still paying insurance on that truck. Yep. It's. Not giving you a return on investment because why the hell did you buy the truck? If you didn't expect a return on investment,

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

lost profit right off the bat.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

Yes. Right. So, I mean, yeah, it includes all of that. Plus the cost of actually having the driver come in because most companies today, how long is an orientation? How many days is an orientation today for most of the fleets you work.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

Well, unfortunately, we're seeing it counted in hours, not days because they're quick to want to get drivers in the trucks, you know? And, and, and unfortunately they're, if they don't move quick, the drivers very quick themselves to go, well, I'll go across the road. I could be to work this afternoon, so, well,

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

how could you speed up the orientation? Still have a quality orientation.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

I don't think you can.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

sorry. I, I mildly disagree. I, and I, I think you can, um, in a couple of ways, one part of your orientation could be taken online, so oh yes, yes, definitely. Yep. And that way. Like I did a, I set up an orientation for a company and we've got now an eight hour orientation all online. So the new driver, they, and this is what happens. They're still working for the, their other carrier. They're doing online training while they're sitting in loading docks and things like that before they get to the new hire. And now the new. Only has three or four hours to do in person on certain topics that they choose to really emphasize and do it in person. And the other online training is already completed before the new driver even comes.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

Makes sense, makes sense. And that that's utilizing, uh, more of your time by all means and reducing the face to face time over a couple of days where yeah. Okay. That makes total sense. What you're talking about. Yeah. Well we can, we can stream.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

What? Yeah. So this company took a day and a half orientation and cut it down to a four hour orientation with the rest of it being online.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

Right. Right. So, so, so basically they didn't, they didn't, uh, lower the. Integrity of that orientation by removing stuff. They streamlined the process and repositioned stuff to be online, so they didn't have to be face to face. Great idea. That's smart thinking.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

And one of the things that this carrier does as well, by the way, is they pay for that eight hours of orientation.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

Oh, interesting. Hey, there's a good. Well,

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

because many of the companies that do this online and they could use carrier's edge or infinity or any of the other things like that, um, they tend not to pay the driver.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

Yes. I don't know why, you know, I don't understand that, that doesn't make a lot of sense to

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

me, you know, cuz this podcast we're gonna get into retention on this episode and why are we continually asking drivers to do shit for. Mm-hmm mm-hmm and if this is your new hire orientation, is that really the way you wanna start off the relationship with your new hire? Exactly. Yep. You know, it's it's mind boggling to me. Yeah. We gotta do stuff different.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

Yes, we do. We can't keep definition, insanity doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

Doesn't work. Why are we doing this constant recruiting? Why don't we concentrate more on retention? Yes. So that we, my company doesn't have to do constant recruiting.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

Exactly. And, and, and there's companies out there that have proven that better retention, uh, better programs, better attention to the retention. Reduce the amount of recruiting you have to do well. Geez. If I can reduce the amount of recruiting, look at how much money I can save per driver that I'm having to hire and spend more time on. Uh, I'm better off to invest into my retention program.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

Well, and alright, let's have we finished with this report? Cuz I'm getting passion now about to stand up and go on a rant,

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

but bring it in. Bring it in

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

brother. well, it just, it drives me. Crazy that, you know, people spend so much time, so much money put so much energy into recruiting, recruiting. Yes. If they would change that. Yep. And put it into retention then. Yep. Recruiting would become a much smaller piece of our budget. and exactly we're gonna have better drivers because we're retaining the ones that we want to retain.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

Yep. All right. So a lot of that, a lot of that starts with let's talk to the drivers that are leaving us. Why are they leaving? What, what is going on here? Exit interviews are very important. Document that process so that you can go back and trend analysis. What are the trends? Why are drivers leaving our company what's going on? And, and if it's got to do with pay and, and, and somebody that says why can't pay anymore? Oh, I beg to differ. I think you could pay more because if you're spending a ton of money in recruiting, you could divert some of those funds, a good portion of those. Into your retention program, bring your drivers up to what's current level part with the freight rates that are going on out there. There should be no reason why driver wages aren't coming up in, in particular companies. I know lots of companies that are paying very good wages. They're not having the turnover, you know, and, and I think we're going in the same direction here. They're paying a certain type of wage.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

Well, I was gonna say. Okay. In today's world with all the technology that we have available to us. Yep. In obviously this is an opinion, but why are we paying the antiquated wage of, or a system of per mile or per load? We now know when the truck is moving. We now know when the truck is making money. We now know when the truck is sitting in the loading dock. Why are we asking the driver to sit in the loading dock and not earn a wage? That's exactly.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

Well that's we took exactly we've, we've touched on this before in some other episodes where a lot of these new drivers that are coming in do not underst. This archaic method of payment, you know, this mileage base, this, you know, drops and picks and, uh, you know, well, I gotta give two hours wait time. If I'm waiting to get loaded or whatever, why that's not the driver's response, he's still responsible for your truck and trailer, your equipment. We need to pay him he's on the clock. So you've got these young people coming. Well, we got these young people. We want to come into the industry to fill these voids, but they're coming from other jobs that are, oh, that's interesting. They're paid by the hour. so why are we bringing them into this archaic system, as you say, that pays by the mile or pays by the load? Why aren't we putting them on an hourly basis so they can understand. Hour for hour. Okay. This makes sense. And I, I, I'm gonna kind of go off on a tangent here in a second, cuz one of the things that we're seeing is we're seeing poor performance in other areas of their job category, vehicle inspections. They're not doing what they should be doing because they're going. I'm not getting paid for that. I get paid when the wheels move. So I just need to get the truck going down a road. Well, if we paid hourly, then I could say, you know what? I'm paying you. Make sure you do a proper vehicle. Inspection takes you a half hour, 45 minutes takes you an hour. You're getting paid, you know? And then when you get in the truck and you start rolling. You're getting paid by the hour, you get stuck at a customer, you get paid by the hour. So when a fellow puts in a full 70 hours in a week, he gets paid for all 70 hours. So there should be no, no, no. Um, no confusion about that. You know, uh, like you said, we got the technology. There's nothing stopping us from doing this and there are companies out. are doing this and they're very

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

successful at it. And I just read a news release this morning and not to plug one ELD supplier over another, but I will. Mm-hmm mm-hmm mm-hmm this is a free plug Isaac. Exactly. Isaac Isaac. I just announced that you can now export the data. From their system into your payroll system. Oh, oh,

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

wow. Awesome. Awesome. So they're, they just made it even easier for the, for the, the accounting people to

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

do payroll. Yeah. Like, and so wouldn't that be? I, I. Being paid for what you do is mm-hmm revolutionary Yes,

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

exactly. Well, cuz one, one of the biggest problems we've had and, and you and I have had to deal with this for years because we've worked in the insurance industry and the insurance industry has always struggled with this per mile basis because what it does, it is an it incense speed. It incentivizes the. To go faster, to put on more miles to cheat their hours or whatever, to get the job done, because, Hey, I'm getting paid by the mile. I gotta put more miles in day. And if I get stuck sitting in a, in a, in a door waiting to get loaded and I lose two hours, what am I gonna do? I'm gonna go as fast as I can to try and make up as many of those miles as I can before the

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

end of the day. And it encourages the drivers to. Tired or when they're ill, when they're not at peak, because if they're not moving, they're not making money. That's right. That's right.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

If we, but the funny part is, or, sorry, the sad part is they're still responsible for that vehicle when they're not getting paid

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

well. Yeah. You know, and so let, let's talk about how we. we own a fleet now. Mm-hmm and everybody's paid by the mile. Yep. And we think, okay. I've heard John and Chris and gosh, that's a darn good idea that I think I'm going to try to adapt. Mm-hmm yep. How can I possibly start the change?

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

Oh, how about with the new hires?

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

Oh, have two different incentive systems. You mean one hour later, one per.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

Why not, why not? Why don't we, as the new guys are coming in, say, Hey, this is what we're gonna do. Let's recruit based on this pace structure.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

Or maybe we could recruit and say, We have two pay structures they're equal. Mm-hmm you choose which one you would like to get paid by per hour or per mile? Yep.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

Yep. I don't think it would be that hard. No, it wouldn't be that hard. It, it wouldn't be. And, and I know companies that have, uh, have done that and they've actually switched everything all over to hourly pay because the existing drivers that were on board started sniffing around. What's this dual pay system you got going on? What, what is this? And once they find out you're making the same kind of money, if not, maybe even a little bit more. Um, now all of a sudden it's like, oh, that's really simple. So whatever I put in for hours for the week, I get paid for it. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

You know? And the beauty of this and what I'm the reason I like this so much is because very few companies are doing it and I want my companies to stand out to be different. Mm-hmm exactly. And I really believe this is a retention tool. I really believe that it will help reduce their turnover because if you are spending$15,000 a driver, even if it was only. yep. Think of your bottom line. If you could reduce that by five hires. Well, all of a sudden this year, that's $25,000 in your pocket. Mm mm-hmm.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

like,

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

that's a lot of money. It is a lot of money. Yeah. And that's on the low end. I believe it's $15,000 per hire.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

I agree. I agree. It's it's. Definitely higher than five grand. There's no

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

way it's that that's too low. And my math says that's $75,000. Yep, yep. A year. Exactly. In your pocket or to your bottom line, like sure. That's huge money. I don't know about you, but 75 grand buys a pretty darn good vacation.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

Well, so, so, so let's expand on this a little bit. So, you know, cuz. You know, risk management minds, think this way that what are some of the advantages of paying by the hour, you know? Ah, so you know what, so maybe it helps my retention. That's fine. Yeah. Okay. But what other advantages am I gonna get by paying by the hour or even on a

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

salary basis? You already talked about the first one. and maybe our, it would encourage our drivers to do a proper thorough and complete vehicle inspection. Mm-hmm mm-hmm that would be the first. Yep.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

Yep. Would so, so that's gonna help the bottom line because we'll reduce downtime. Right. Uh, roadside inspections, uh, we'll reduce, uh, violations on the carrier profiles. Uh, we'll reduce outrageous expenses roadside because we caught the defect here in the yard rather than out on the road. So we're gonna save some money and whatever fines we may get from those roadside inspections. We'll reduce those next to nothing.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

Yeah. And. You already mentioned it. Um, if it reduces your CBR violations or your national safety code violations reduces your SMS violations, your insurance company is going to look at you pretty favorably. And exactly. I don't wanna say reduce your insurance rates, but how about decrease your next year's increase?

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Might might hold its status quo or something, you know, or if

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

everybody else is getting a 10% increase on their insurance rates, maybe you only get seven, like yeah. Yep.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

Exactly. Exactly. There's still a substantial savings there. Yeah. So, so huge. One of the big things. Yeah. One of the big things that I see in, uh, in this pay structure is I now slow the trucks down a little bit, not substantially, like a lot of people are like, oh yeah, well, the guy's gonna dawg it. No, no, the he's not gonna dog it. The speed. Limit's a hundred K he's gonna do a hundred K. Right. But he's not gonna be in a rush to, to get under pressure. Ah, I gotta get more miles. I gotta get more miles. No, no, we're gonna. Op we're gonna operate properly. So we mentioned a little bit less fatigue, right. But we're gonna reduce that vehicle speed. So fuel consumption, uh, less wear and tear on the vehicle. And wow. If I reduce the speed, less chance of me being involved in the collision. Wow. So huge factors.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

You reduce your speed. If you increased fuel, sorry. Decreased fuel consumption. Let's say just marginally one or 2%, because instead of doing 1 0 5, you encourage your drivers to do 100 between 95 and 100. Yep. What does that do to your fuel economy? And then what does that doing to your bottom line? Oh, huge maintenance is also improving now. Yep because of that. Yep. Yep.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

Exactly. Less beating on the truck to get it to where it needs to go. So we're, you know, we're gonna save some money there, so, and, and if I can reduce my speed and therefore reduce the number of collisions I have over the course of a year. Yes. That's a huge savings from an insurance perspective. But I think one of the things, a lot of people miss out on is how much do you pay out in the deductible for each claim that you have? So now all of a sudden, if I reduce my claims. How many deductibles do I reduce

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

well. And even if you only reduced one, that deductible is not a true cost of what you're actually paying because now no, no, no. You know, just one example and I think this would be a great podcast episode, but, uh, you know, just the one thing your truck's been involved in a crash, what did that do to its trade-in value? Just that one thing alone. Yeah, exactly.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

A lot of

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

people don't think of that. Yeah. And the downtime right now, we know because of the truck driver's shortage parts are very short. Yep. Well, your truck goes into the shop now and it's there for a long time. Mm-hmm and of course you're still paying, uh, for anyways, we won't get on and that tangent,

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

but well, and now, and now we jeopardize losing the driver because if I don't have another vehicle to put that good driver in. Now I'm in, I'm in, I'm in trouble because now I don't have anything to keep him working

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

because it's hard to rent a vehicle right now.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

Exactly. Oh, good luck. Everybody's renting vehicles. So good luck trying to find one. Yeah. So

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

yeah. So it just it's the snowball effect.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

Yes, exactly. Exactly. All, all because of a pace structure.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

Yeah.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

Common denomin. Pay

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

structure. I, and I've seen some court cases in the states now where the lawyers are raising how you are paying your drivers.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

Mm, interesting.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

Yes. So that, that. It's affecting insurance as well, because of course sure. If they can increase, uh, the payout of a certain claim, because the jury agrees that maybe you incentivize the driver's speed a little bit or drive tired or whatever, however, that smart, aggressive attorney spins it. Exactly. Yeah. It's going on? I care

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

bottom. And especially in the fact that we're seeing a lot of carriers there, there's more carriers getting traction in this and they're starting to look at and pay their drivers on an hourly or salary basis. Yeah. Right. So, so that prosecuting attorney is perfectly in his right to go, well, you know, this is happening. Why haven't. You done something to curb these issues within your organization, you know? Yeah.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1:

So with all the technology that's available today, the attorney gets it and they can see all of the speeding events. Oh yes, yes. You know, the last fleet I drove or, sorry, I worked for as a safety guy, I tried to reduce that. What a. When you are paying the drivers mileage and you are trying to reduce the speeding events. Yep. It's very difficult.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

For safety. I, I wanna, I wanna throw in a, uh, uh, an asterisks here to everybody out there that is saying to us right now through the screen, but all my trucks are governed to 105, so I don't have speeding issues. I'm gonna say you are so. Because we're not talking about the speeding at 105. Yes. We're talking about the speeding at 50 kilometers an hour, and your truck's doing 70 kilometers in a 50 kilometer hour zone, or they're doing a hundred kilometers and an 80 kilometer zone. You know, these are the areas where we're seeing lots of crashes. This is where you can save tons of money on. Fuel, you know, so yes, we can reduce 1 0 5 down to 100 and put some more money in our pocket, but those aren't the big high areas. It's it's in town speeding. It's uh, the low end speeding the posted speed limit issues that we see a lot of trouble

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

with. Well that, and, and I have. An issue with governing trucks at 1 0 5. When the majority of our speed limit here in Ontario still is 100. Yes. Yes. You know, it's, I'm waiting for that smart attorney to go. Geez. Why do you govern that 1 0 5? When most of your highways are governed at 100? Wouldn't it have been prudent of you to govern it at 100? Yeah, nevermind exactly. That the law won't get into that, Johnny. We, no, yeah, exactly. We're we're coming close to the 30 minute mark. Yep. We gotta wrap this one up. What else do we do? We beat this one. Pretty good. Say about this study either the study and I'll throw that back on the screen again here. Sure. I hope. Yep.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

Um, well I encourage everybody to read. You know, it's, it's not a hard read. It's like, what three, four minute read it's it's it's great information. Um, there's some really, you know, there threats to the supply chain and economic recovery. Yes. It's, it's some big words right there, uh, to give you a scare tactic, but I think we need to pay attention because as motor carriers, we can all do a better job at how we're hiring drivers, you know, and yes, I know it's hard to get drivers, but at the same. you obviously at this very moment have drivers in the seats of your trucks. So why are you losing them and why are you having to replace them when you should be looking at how can I keep them? What is it that I need to do to make these young men and women stay with the, my company and, and make us a better company in the long run. You shouldn't have turnover. Nobody should have turnover. So if you're really wanting to fix the problem, look at the retention

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

and John, and I understand that what we're suggesting is radical, perhaps because mm-hmm , it is not the norm. That, uh, we're, we're suggesting that you pay hourly or salary, um, for a lot of different reasons, we believe that it promotes safety. That's the bottom line and yep. That's what John and I are all about. If you are to need help. Or if you wanna discuss this further with either one of us pick own John and I would love to have the discussion, um, we could even go so far as to help you structure it and implement it if that was what you wanted our assistance in. But if you just wanna talk about it, Or if you just wanna say you two are foolish, then we'll talk to you about that. Yeah. Let

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

us know. But, but the one thing so true here is you cannot continue to keep doing the same thing over and over and over again, and expect a different result. You Mr. Motor. Have to make a change. The only way it's gonna change is by making a change, don't keep expecting it. That's just a definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. Yeah. It's not gonna

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

happen. And you know, the previous, uh, episode that we did, or I don't know if it was exactly the one before, where we talked about mentorship, which is. Awesome. I encourage everybody to bring new drivers on. Yeah, but your insurance company doesn't want a fleet of new drivers. They want you to keep it below 10% for sure. And that's an expensive solution. Mm-hmm why not just keep the drivers, you have reduce your turnover rate. You'd be a lot better off. Yes.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

Big time. Big time. Well, cuz then you could focus on the guys. You. Instead of meeting new guys every day of the week.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

Yep. I think that's a great wave, Johnny. Let me, yep. You can wrap her up.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solution:

Perfect. Well, thanks for coming and joining us here on the trucking risk and insurance podcast. We hope we were able to share some valuable information with you. And, uh, Hey, like Chris said earlier, if you've got any questions, don't hesitate, reach out. Talk to us. We'd be glad to chat with you. So other. Have a great weekend, everybody. And if it's, if you're seeing this on Monday, have a great week and don't forget to like, and subscribe.

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Chris Harris

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John Farquhar

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