Trucking Risk and Insurance Podcast

What is Happening in Washington DC? Truckload Carriers, David Heller Tells Us

January 06, 2023 John Farquhar & Chris Harris Season 2 Episode 47
Trucking Risk and Insurance Podcast
What is Happening in Washington DC? Truckload Carriers, David Heller Tells Us
Show Notes Transcript

This week on Trip, Trucking Risk and Insurance Podcast, we have David Heller, the Senior Vice President of Truckload Carriers Association. David talks about his role in lobbying the US government on behalf of trucking companies throughout Canada and the United States, as well as discussing what's happening on Capitol Hill and the trucking industry. He covers topics such as speed governing, environmental aspects, and the misclassification of independent contractors. Don't miss out on this insightful conversation about the issues facing the trucking industry today.

Truckload Carriers https://truckload.org
You can email David, dheller@truckload.org

Reach out to your hosts:
John Farquhar
Summit Risk Solutions: summitrisksolutions.ca
1 226 802-2762
John@summitrisksolutions.ca


Chris Harris
Safety Dawg Inc: safetydawg.com
Chris@SafetyDawg.com
1 905 973 7056




Keeping it Safety Dawg Simple!
#trucksafety #truckinsurance #truckpodcast

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

This week on Trip, Trucking Risk and Insurance Podcast. We have David Heller, the senior vice president from truckload carriers, and one of David's rules is to lobby the US government on behalf of trucking companies throughout Canada and the United States. So with that, let's get to the interview. David Heller, welcome to the Trucking Risk and Insurance Podcast. David, I thought we would start off, if you would be kind to tell our guests and our viewers what it is that you do at the truckload

David Heller:

carriers. Well, first of all, gentlemen, thank you for having me on and, and at tca here I am the Senior Vice President of Safety and Government. Uh, basically in a nutshell, it is my job to understand just about anything and everything, and there certainly is a lot of anything and everything , uh, that gets talked about in DC as it pertains to legislative issues and regulatory issues, and be able to communicate that to the membership of tca. So, If you can imagine just about any different conversation that I'm in can change from every 20 minutes or so to something entirely different. And then I get the pleasure of conversating and communicating with TCA membership about those changes and the effects it may have on carriers that belong to tca. Well,

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions:

and I, and I'm sorry, I imagine that includes, uh, a little bit of, um, you know, language change up to get it out of the government in ease and bring it down to layman's terms for people to understand.

David Heller:

People understand I do it so I can understand it. I always say , I even explained like a four-year-old can understand it, and that's, I can understand it so I can communicate it. So there's little translation. There's anything as such as a dumb question. And if there is, I'm the one usually asking it.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

Yeah. No, I know. You do a great job every year. We're blessed that TCA does come up to Canada and does a bridging. Bridging Borders event and this year was no different. Mm-hmm. and some of the topics that you talked about specifically about what's going on in Washington, because that, as you know, greatly affects every cross border carrier. And our audience, by the way, is, uh, 40% American and 60% Canadian. So we have a lot of Americans that do listen and, and view this show. What is happening on the Hill right now. Like truck governing, is that still a topic?

David Heller:

Well, you know, and it's funny when you look at Capitol Hill right now, we're in the midst or pretty much concluding what we call our lane duck session, which means we're basically transitioning from one Congress to the next. We had our election in November and elected our new senators, new representatives that will take office and will be sworn in after the holidays. So the old Congress is basically finishing up their work with the sense, with the sense basically being, they're finishing a year end spending package and that spending package is set to be voted on, which basically keeps the government open and, and keeps it moving forward. So what does it look like at this point when it comes to trucking and whatnot? Probably not much of anything in terms of governing. Um, they'll look to the new Congress to start rolling ideas out through that, that regard. So what,

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

where does that leave a lot of the big things that are happening? Such as, um, are they, well, are they talking about governing? Cause I hear that every now and again that the, uh, they, they keep throwing out. Are we gonna govern the big.

David Heller:

Well, and that's a great question because now there's a rule that's coming through FM C S A, which is regulatory in nature, and which F M C S A doesn't need congressional permission to move forward with, with governing or limiting speeds on trucks. They can actually do so because they have purview or, or legal authority to do that because of their, their status as a, as an administrative organization through, through. Whatever you want to call it, um mm-hmm.. But basically they can issue rules and regulations that pertain to the industry because that's who they regulate. So in saying that, we're still in the midst of a speed limiting or speed governing rule, and we don't know what it looks like. Uh, basically the issue issued a, uh, notice of intent, if you will, or a. Supplemental notice of proposed rulemaking, advanced supplemental notice of proposed rulemaking that asked the industry, where are you on this? What does your speed program look like, and how do you perceive a rule laying out? The interesting part of this is when they did issue it, there was no speeds that they suggested were the right or wrong answer. They wanted industry to declare that more than anything else. So when industry came forward, they did so to the tune of, I believe over 16,000 comments were submitted to the docket in relation to that. So, When the federal government or FMCs a receives this amount of comments, they read every single comment that is, um, whether it's on a scratch piece of paper, official letterhead, what have you, they're reading every word that's submitted before they can move forward with the next step. So it does take time. This, nobody will ever accuse the federal government being fast, and it's regular . It's gonna be a. Uh, time lengthening process. So I would imagine at some point in 2023, probably the LA latter half of 2023, we'll probably see a supplemental notice of proposed rule making that might include what they perceive to be as. Speed limits in which fleets could be governed at. Make no mistake too, let's say this, this is not your grandfather's speed limiter. This is not set of speed and forget it. You know, technology has come so far, so fast that you're looking at new technology that can allow for flexibility to be built into the driver's day. You know, we can adjust for where they're driving if they're in a 25 mile an hour zone. Again, I'm from the state, so I use miles per hour, but at the same point, it will adjust for that and adjust for that truck to go 25 miles per hour versus on the interstates where maybe 65 miles an hour, even 70 miles an hour. It could adjust for that as well. I know a lot of our. Members had filed comments. They use speed control programs as part of their safety incentives and give safety incentives or their safest drivers, higher rates of speed. Because they have the experience, they, they know what it's like to operate safely, so they'll allow them to travel a few miles per hour, giving them some additional horsepower. So it's all across the board as to how this will actually work. FM C S A is in the unenviable position of trying to decipher all the comments that were submitted. forward with what is next,

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

wondering does, does TCA have a position on this?

David Heller:

We do, we do. TCA supports limiting speeds on vehicles at 65 miles per hour. Um, and again, we would allow that to go up if those trucks that are being operated have a adaptive cruise control, for instance, automatic emergency, uh, proper safety technologies that would help the driver assist the driver when traveling at a higher rate of speed. So that would be,

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

Well, that's cool. Um, what else is happening on the hill do that you can share with us? Oh, wow.

David Heller:

It's a little bit of everything. You know, 2023 is not gonna be quiet, you know, it's gonna be a lot like 2022. You, there's still a need for drivers. I think F M C S A and the government are still looking. To attract people to the trucking industry. We still, we have that ongoing pilot program that is, is looking at the safety record or the safety performance of younger drivers and whether, whether or not they're operating in a manner that is as safe or safer, um, than they're more seasoned counterparts. I think we're gonna see a lot of news, uh, coming out on. At some point in the future as it pertains to environmental aspects and, and the issues that industry is dealing with when they're trying to upgrade their equipment. So I think 2023 will bring a lot of noise about that. And again, we'll still be dealing with misclassification issues with independent contractors. Yeah. Fact that Congress is, is gonna try and fix the truck parking issue, um, and get more parking spaces for trucks across the country.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions:

Well, and and it's interesting because a lot of those. Issues that are happening in the US are also happening up here in Canada, you know? Correct. We've got the misclassification situation, we've got e l D changes that are going on, you know, and I know the US is now looking at, hmm, should we go to a third party certification process? Um, you know, and then the truck parking issue across Canada is just really, really tough. So, yeah. So it, there's a lot of similarities between the two. So I'm, I'm kind of glad to see that. now getting the industry, I guess you could say is getting representation. From a North American Association, which we're looking at T C a, being

David Heller:

that Yeah, and I, I'm, I'm one of the lucky people to know that I have members in both countries. We've got great members in Canada, we've got great members in the States, and they're all experiencing the same problems, as you said there. There's not one problem that's an issue here in the States. That's not an issue in Canada. Uh, and it seems to go about that play. Yes. We thank you for your third party certification rule that FM c s A is now looking into it. Good, bad, or indifference. Certainly it's an aspect that has limited your playing field for ELDs up in, up north of the border. So it's one of those issues that this, that FM C S A is looking forward or looking at as bringing something like that to the states. I don't have a crystal ball that will tell me if, if that's the direction they're gonna go in. But it's certainly one of the questions they have and how well it's worked. So, you know, a lot of the same problems, supply chain issues, driver shortage. I think we're all dealing with that and trying to look for innovative ways to attract new people to the industry. And I think that's, that's gonna be point or problem number one as we get into 2023. Big time.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

Big time. Well, yeah. Equipment shortages like we're shortage. Yeah. Uh, to say the word shortage, it applies to everything. Equipment. Mm-hmm., drivers, dispatchers, mechanics, like, it doesn't matter going to your local coffee shop. They seem to be short of personnel. It's just, it's a, uh, north America, at least I don't, I was gonna say worldwide what, what I know about Europe, but uh, certainly here in North America, it seems to be a crisis of people. There just isn't. Oh, there's

David Heller:

no doubt. It, it, it's not just a trucking industry thing. It's all across the board and everybody's experiencing it from your local ice cream shop, and here it is, middle winter and we're talking ice cream . But at the same point, you know, everybody's experiencing it no matter where you go or what you do. I think somebody has a sign in their window that says, apply within, and they're just consistently looking for good help. Yeah. Well,

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions:

the, the pandemic, it's definitely not help. I think it is really, if anything, it's helped to expose. The problems that we're having to deal and face with today?

David Heller:

Oh, definitely. The one thing I, it's basically gotten people out of the industry or out of working and, and where do we go from here? The one thing it did show was the essentiality of trucking. I think people now started to realize, right, is how important the professional truck driver is to keeping the economy going, you know, years past as an industry, if we're operating. traditionally operate on a driver shortage, right? Mm-hmm., you've always heard the news we're 60,000 drivers short, 60,000 drivers short, which was never. Great. We understand that and, and Johnny citizen understands that, but it's never in their face. All of a sudden you're somewhere hovering around 80,000 and you start seeing empty shelves. Mm-hmm. So that's where the problem starts going, or inventory's not fulfilled in certain amount of times, and that starts to become an issue and all a sudden it becomes quite an issue. And Covid showed that the professional truck drivers delivering everything that everybody has and uses on a daily basis. We certainly know that cuz nobody goes to the train station to buy milk. Yeah, it just, they go to stores to buy and it gets to the store on a truck. So in saying that, it highlighted the importance of the professional truck driver and I think that's here to stay. Hope so.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

I sure as hell hope so because, well, I, I was just reading an article, um, this morning. and it was an American article. I'm just trying to think which government it was that was, uh, issuing it. There isn't the states trying to pass legislation right now that if a truck driver is delivering to your premises, they have to be allowed to use the washroom.

David Heller:

Yeah. Yep. It's unfortunate that it's come down to that and, and that's the reality. I don't, you know, the fact that you have a truck driver working in today's society that would be denied the use of a restroom, um, doesn't speak too highly of our society. You know, you've got people delivering goods that you desperately need. Let them, you need, Use the bathroom if they need to. I, I think we've all can attest, and I'm not a truck driver, but I've driven on some long road trips. Sometimes you get to the point where you just gotta use the bathroom . Mm-hmm., it's not good for anything. So the fact that we have to get legislation in place to, to allow truck drivers to use restrooms when they need it, um, is one of those issues that, I don't know whether it's a good thing or a bad. Well, they,

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions:

I was gonna say they did it here in Ontario, you know, early on and, and it was, and it was like, everybody's going, really? We need to do that. We need to put that legislation in place. Yeah. Like, can't people just allow somebody to use a washer? Yeah. You know? So it really made you scratch your head.

David Heller:

Yeah, and it's, and I'm of the same opinion. It's like we've come so far as to now we have to issue legislation that would allow somebody to use the bathroom.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

Yeah, I know. It's, I mean, in the early days of Covid, I understand it because we didn't understand the disease and, and everything that are brought with us, so we wanted to limit everybody's exposure to other. So I, I understand that, but this is a problem that goes back for many years, not, it's not a covid issue. I was kind of glad to see it and I know Ontario had to do the same damn thing. Um, it's ridiculous that we've gotta pass a law to treat somebody else with some dignity, but that's the society we all live. I'm right there

David Heller:

with you. I'm right there with you. Exactly.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

Yeah. That was, I was, I'd forgotten about that until I was reading that this morning in, uh, one of the, the news things that I get every now and again, but before we switch subjects, anything else that you want to share about Washington, what you're lobbying or what you're hearing?

David Heller:

Down there, , there certainly is a lot of it. We, we've been doing a lot of work with truck parking, um, I'd say in the last couple of months. Um, certainly kind of hammering the needle home. There was, there was thought we might get increased dollars and you need dedicated funding to help solve an issue like this. It can't be infrastructure dollars, which then allows discretionary dollars to go to the states. The, the problem with discretionary, They're not earmarked for certain projects and with 20, we just passed an infrastructure bill in the States in 2021, which was consisted of 2020 $1. Well, it's 2022, and those dollars are not the same. Wow. They don't necessarily go as far as they once did do that. So you're dealing with a tug of war when you're looking at roadways. Bridges and oh, truck parking. Um, who inevitably loses that argument? It's gonna be truck parking, even though we, there's such a essential need for it and need for more safe and secure truck parking across this country, that there needs to be dedicated funding for it. And I think, um, we had a bill that got introduced recently, which was basically almost an improved version of a previous bill that called. 775 or $755 million over four years to be dedicated towards this problem. And it becomes a question of, okay, this is there and you have a lot of bipartisan support. You're just not getting a lot of movement days when, well, you and I would perceive as a great bill to pass through, um, without getting attached to something much larger. So when you think of larger, Massive spending bills with large dollars amounted to it. And this goes in as a, as a little sidebar, um, in the r r in the realm of American politics and, and gets done that way. It just doesn't get voted up and down on its face value, which good bills like this certainly should, but it just won't. So I think 2023 will. See some movement on truck parking with a lot of bipartisan support. Um, I know there's a lot of action or activity over at FMCSA where they're starting to look at the National Roadway Safety Strategy, which is one of those strategies that the agency's looking at to help improve the safety record, um, that the administrator inherited when she got confirmed through the US Senate, which is obviously increasing in accidents and looking at ways in which those accidents come, can come down. Technology always comes to mind when you have this conversation and that strategy is no different. I just have the luxury of representing carriers as well as you gentlemen, have the luxury of working with carriers who have this technology in place. So think automatic emergency breaking, think lane departure warning systems, the success rate of those carriers that have had these things in place should trickle down to those carriers that do not and encourage their adoption, probably regulate it or mandate to put in those trucks. So we're looking at things like that. As it moves forward into the new year and what the agency wants to move forward with as well. So again, a lot of conversation. I think, uh, I'm hoping we see some movement on hair testing. I know Chris and I are kind of sitting there looking at hair testing, testing, but I'm hoping as, as an alternative measure for drug and alcohol testing policies. Without a doubt, without a doubt. Uh, The numbers are there. They speak for themselves. And the ability to identify more people who use drugs on our roadways when they should not be is tremendous. Yeah. Yeah. We definitely need this measure in place as it relates to the clearinghouse. Mm-hmm., Chris Harris, Safety Dawg: with so many of the states with Canada, all legalizing marijuana and yeah.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

I'm not sure that the existing testing measures are fair and adequate.

David Heller:

if you look at it, you know, over seven large truckload carriers had over 80,000 drivers tested last year. For new, new employee drug testing or drug testing programs. Of the 80,000 drivers, 400 tested positive for drugs in their system with a urine based test. 4,000 tested positive for hair, with hair testing. So there is a distinct difference and, and wow. You know, marijuana's part of that factor, you know, just like Canada, it's getting legalized in a lot of areas here in the States. Mm-hmm. And certainly it is the number one detected drug by far here in the States. And those legalization efforts certainly are part of that. Now, uh, I'm not here to say it's good, bad or indifferent, whether you use marijuana. That's not for me to say, but I can say as a truck driver who operates in, in interstate commerce under the Federal Motor Carrier safety regulations, certainly it's a no-no. And it's one of those things that gets pulled out and you are. Except from that, you are actually still required to be tested for marijuana regardless of Right. No. Makes sense.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

It's just one of those things we, we gotta drive home. Road safety. Mm-hmm.. Mm-hmm.. It's the number one concern I would think of truckload carriers. It's certainly the number one concern of John and I cuz we're safety consultants. Um, and we all drive the highways.

David Heller:

Oh yeah., you know, if I say it once, I'll say it again. You know, trucking in its basic form is delivering freight from point A to point B and doing so safely, because if you don't do it safely, it doesn't get to that point B does it. So, um, that's what we're talking about here. And anything and everything we can. To up the anti on improving our safety numbers and reducing accidents. We certainly would do that and look forward to doing that. But you know, 2023 is gonna be just as busy as 2022. It, and it just seems like every 2022, no stone was unturned. We were talking about anything and everything, and we'll continue

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

Yep. Well, I, I think you've hit the two big issues. Drug testing and truck driver parking.

David Heller:

There's gonna be another one. There's, this is trucking, so there's always more bigger

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions:

things happen. Right.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

Hey, I wanted to ask, um, If we can switch, change or change lanes, we'll use a trucking acronym, change lanes a little bit. Why should a carrier look at truckload carriers as a viable, uh, group to be a member of?

David Heller:

That's a great question. It really is, and it's, it's one, it's one we often get involved in because I always say, why would you not seek to be, seek an environment where you can surround yourselves with people who are going through the same issues, have the same problems, and if you're seeking solutions to those problems, invariably there will be people at our meetings that have done that or have gone down that road and achieved that solution. So it's an opportunity to. Surrounded by like-minded people. Mm-hmm., who are dedicated to making the industry better. Um, I've been involved in TCA for 17 years, which long time in my book, and I, I don't think I've ever met a greater group of people who are dedicated to not only making improvements within their business. But also helping, uh, maybe a competitor, especially in the safety world, you know, there's no secrets in safety and being part of TCA exposes you to that environment where you can, you can ask questions and get an honest answer of what other carriers have stripped, have tried to do or have been successful in doing into solving the problem that you may have. And that's, that's not because they're just large carriers or small carriers. It's carriers of all sizes that aren't hesitant to engage in those convers. So if you belong to tca, it gives you that opportunity to, to share in that and surround yourself with like-minded individuals or with people who are going through the same things you are.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

And I, I do know that, uh, safety's your kind of forte and, and being on the hill, not recruiting new members. But I'd like to stay on the, the membership piece a little bit cuz I really see TCA. Um, and I'm not a member yet, but every time you come to Canada and I listen to the people that speak at the events, I go, damn, I want to be a member.

David Heller:

you just gimme your credit card right now. Chris, I'll,

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions:

I like the, I like the fact that this, this is an organization you can be part., you're not having to reinvent the wheel. Mm-hmm., somebody here has gone through what you're going through. You have the ability to network with other like-minded professionals. And I know that you guys either in the administration side of, of tca. Or from the membership side alone, we'll be more than happy to be able to say, yeah, well this is how we did this. This is how we were able to work with this situation, or This is what we put in place to address this. You don't have to do it alone. You know, when you're with a good

David Heller:

association. No, and you're right. It's, it's one of those open, proverbial open door policies, right? It's mm-hmm., it's, Hey, somebody's got the answer to this. Somebody has dealt with this safety issue before. Yeah. You know, trucking's not new and you know, we're all gray haired here on this, this podcast, so we've been around a long time to know that a lot of the same questions come up, or a lot of the same problems arise by carriers. And we all know people that have. Have encountered them and, and had a solution for them or, or maybe tried something out that didn't work. Um, I, I think we all have that experience and being part in surrounding yourself, whether it's at our safety and security division meeting that we have in June, that'll be in San Antonio or our annual convention in Orlando in March, or our Bridging Board of Barrier Conference. I think it just shows putting people of like minds in a room. To educate themselves, become familiar with problems that other others are experiencing, because guess what, you'll figure out that you are not alone in experiencing them either. And, and giving you a form to ask questions and get the solutions to those questions certainly provides a ton of value to a lot of people. Sure.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

Well, and, and I've heard the, uh, the benchmarking committees, um, where they. Private and confidential information with their competitors. Mm-hmm., uh, to, to assist tackling the same problems that everybody's having. Uh, I've heard really good things from members about that.

David Heller:

Mm-hmm.. Oh yeah. It's, it's all about operational efficiency at that point. And when they're getting into reading between the lines of what those numbers actually mean is a, a tremendous asset for those that are involved. Um, I. The people that are involved in it cannot speak high highly enough about it. I mean, they're almost a, a TCA salesperson in and of their own selves because of the rewards they reap from participating in this type of thing. And it just makes them overall better trucking companies, uh, yeah, it makes improve upon the bottom line and, and makes them make changes where changes need to be made. You know, maybe it's incorporating a piece of safety equipment into their operations that they didn't previously have before looking at their operating ratios or considering a program that they hadn't considered before. It just kind of, it gets down to the nitty grit, gritty, and really opens some doors to the questions that people have. Uh, without a doubt, it, it's one of those things, if you're not a member, I, I don't understand why you're not giving a call and I'll put you in touch with somebody who can talk you. So it just, certainly without a doubt, it's we, the more people we get into this, the better off we are as this, as an association, we can speak with one greater voice. And that's for our carrier friends in Canada, our carrier friends in Mexico, and our carrier friends right here in the United States as well. Mm-hmm.. Chris Harris, Safety Dawg: Well, What for us up here in Canada, what the Americans do is what we will do, um, eventually Yes. You know, like, exactly. You know, and ELDs is a great example. Uh, CTA had wanted ELDs many years ago, and a guy that was about 15 years ago maybe, and it looked like the Americans were moving that way. So CTA said, let's just wait for the Americans to do it so that whatever we adapt, We can use cross-border without having to have two systems. Right. Well that took a little longer than anticipated, I think Well, you know, we learned our lesson cuz we all gave you guys hockey and look how that turned out. So

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

Yeah. Well hey, we gave you basketball so, you know. Yeah.. David Heller: No point. No point. There's no doubt about that. But, but you're right. And it becomes kind of one of those things at this point in, in time, the border is really a. Ambiguously blurry gray line, especially between the US and Canada. I mean, we're, our operations are so closely tied together and I think the amount of carriers that now engage in cross-border operations has grown tremendously. It's, you're no longer just a, a small business entity. A lot of people do it, uh, because the trade is there. You know, it's, I think Canada is what our number one trading partner in the world today. And in saying that, it makes perfect sense, you know?, it's such a close business partner of, of the US and vice versa, that it makes sense to have very rules similar in nature and you've got drivers that are operating in each other's lanes, so to speak. So it, it makes sense to have the rules interchangeable and have those drivers know and understand what each rules are going to be. Yeah. Well even

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions:

I was gonna say even from the aspect of you, Just as a, as a, as a, um, how do I wanna say it? As a pinpoint um, comparison in Canada here right now, we've got the new e l D process coming into place. I know that there's a lot of American carriers that are probably going, what do I need to know? Yeah, and I know they, if they're a member of tca, they can reach out to TCA to get some of those answers and get direction to other people or other members that go, oh yeah, we got this, we got

David Heller:

this. Oh, and there's no doubt, and certainly you know, the difference between the US and Canada is probably somewhere about 700 devices if you wanna be, which some of those in the US maybe not, will not work as designed, , that third party certification, but at the same point, It speaks volumes about that third party certification too. I mean, you wrote a rule and here's how the device is supposed to work, hence the third party certification. And you hold to that, which if I have a carrier that's engaged in cross-border operations, I'm gonna tell them they need to look at both, both lists and find a device that is suitable and practical for their operations. Right. Um, I can't, if I've had that conversation once, I've had that conversation a thousand times, , it makes perfect sense and it just goes to show you that. The, the size of cross border operations because everybody is involved in it. Yes, yes. You know, and I, I can also acknowledge the fact that, you know, you do have a rule that is made for. Complying with hours of service regulations and, and that's what it's there for. The E L D is not designed to save a life, it's not a safety improvement device. The ELD is a tool. Mm-hmm.. Um, it's, it is a tool, compliance tool for complying with hours of service. It is the hours of service regulations that are designed to save lives and limit. Limit fatigue driving and all of that stuff, so, mm-hmm., a lot of people misinterpret that. But no, it is mainly a tool, much like a hammer is for building a house. A ELD is for complying with hours of service. Um, it gets the job done and a job that needed to get done. I mean, I think we all are, have dated ourselves and go back to the days with paper logs and, and know, you know, the fables that exist with some of those things, so. Mm-hmm., um, ELDs. Was an inflection point of the industry. I always say it was our really, one of the first big data generating devices that our industry got to encounter, and now copious amounts of data are being generated all over this industry that can be used for safety improvement, can be used to, mm-hmm. define and see what the driver's day looks like so it can highlight the, the issues that need to be fixed, that issues that are broken and, and go from there. So it's truck parking, we talked about that. And ELD shows you where there's problems with truck parking and mm-hmm. and how much time and driver waste actually looking for it on a daily basis. Yeah. So there's all sorts of things and data that are being generated by ELDs and other devices like that that. Take our driver's day in a manner which we as an industry hadn't been before. And mm-hmm., it's certainly gonna read major benefits towards improving safety record of, of this industry. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

One of the, the, and I'll screw this stat up, I just remember reading it saying what a truck driver only drives, and I want to say it was six hours, six and a half hours.

David Heller:

Sorry, what was it? six and a half hours of drive time per day. Yeah, I mean

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

that just shocked the, I won't say what the other half of that sentence is, but then

David Heller:

just shocked. It does, uh, it does in fact, uh, an m i t um, professor got up and testified on Capitol Hill that yes, drivers are averaging about six and a half hours of drive time per day. And if we just allowed them to get 12 more minutes, 12 more minutes of drive time per day, our supply chain crisis would be over with. And, and, you know, this is kind of that mantra. Certainly, I think we can find 12 minutes to prove this professor's theory right or wrong, but mm-hmm., we're just hugging for 12 minutes, but think about the amount of time they was being detained at the shipper. Mm-hmm. before the receiver facility. Mm-hmm. You know, they spend an hour every day looking for safe and secure truck parking, and that's not advancing the load. That's actually looking for a place to park a truck. And you know, this is productivity in a nutshell. And we're dealing with a supply chain environment that made big news and even put me on Fox News to talk about this, that there is a supply chain delivery issue in this country. And here we are. We're only at six and a half hours of drive time in the states that calls allows drivers to drive 11. Um, so we're leav. Leaving drive time unused, and it's something that needs to be fixed. I mean that if we can get productivity up to where it needs to be, I think we can start really, really moving a lot of free. Mm-hmm.. and

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

goddammit, that's what we need at the moment, right? To move more freight.

David Heller:

Well, hold on, let's let my wife's Christmas shopping finish up before we do that. Yeah, yeah,

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions:

exactly. But, but, but I guess that's where, if we could get the logistics side, so the, the shippers, the receivers on board to say, Hey, you know what, why don't you just, instead of taking an hour to unload that truck, why don't you do it in. 48 minutes and, and give our guy back 12 minutes. You know, maybe that could make a difference. But it just makes you question like, if, if the shipping and receiving site is so inefficient in their ability to unload and move the goods off the trailer, they've gotta realize that your, your inefficiency is affecting the supply chain going down the.

David Heller:

And, and it's interesting that you bring that. It's, when you bring that up, I was in a demonstration, an e l d uh, device. I, they were showing me the benefits of it, and they were highlighting a particular warehouse that had 50 dock doors to it, right? And they were highlighting the inefficiencies or efficiencies of each dock door. And there was one door that experienced a tremendous amount of detention time, and they could not figure out why. I mean, it was just above and beyond stood out from all the rest about why this one door, Was not being tended to. And any driver that pulled up was being detained longer than any other doctor in the facility. So they went to the facility and they figured out why it was this one door was the closest door to the executive offices, and none of the people that serviced the dock doors ever wanted to be near the executive offices. So the driver that pulled up to that door was often spent waiting because nobody was ever near there cuz they didn't wanna be near where the boss were. So it's just, it's simple problems like that, that an ELD can highlight or these telematics. Can highlight and show where problems exist to get that 12 minutes and get them out and drop. Yeah.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

With, I think that's a great place to kind of wrap up the show. Mr. Heller, last word to you. Did we leave something out that you wanted to get across today?

David Heller:

If, if you did, it's gonna take another two hours for the show. honestly, we talked about a lot on the show and I, I hope I, I hope you have me back because I imagine Yeah, I'd love to. Great. Be the time to talk about, oh, just about everything pertaining to the driver. And obviously I think it's the goal of everybody involved to make the driver's life safer and easier. Um, and I think that's what we're looking at in 2023.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

Awesome. Thanks

David Heller:

David. Yes, thank you. Thank you for having me on. I appreciate it.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:

Thank you David. David Heller of truckload carriers. David is the senior vice president of truckload carriers and does an awful lot of work on our, on our behalf, the trucking industry's behalf in Washington DC So thanks for coming on the show, David. We will be certain to have you back. That's it for this. Trucking Risk and Insurance Podcast. We are out. Thanks for tuning in.