Summit Risk Solutions: summitrisksolutions.ca
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And welcome to another episode of the trucking risk and insurance podcast with your host, John Farwell of Summit Risk Solutions and Chris Harris of Safety Dawg. Hi everybody. Let me get John in here because we got a couple of things that we would like to address this week. Hey guys, address John, cuz we're going to address.John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions:
Oh, good deal. We're gonna. Pet peeves. I wonder. Yeah. Well, like let's go on a rant. Oh, I love rants. I love rants happy rants too. well, and I really like that shirt, flash that shirt, look at that. Look at that. Ooh, just, you know, it's like a little van of white thing. Woo. Take a note. You know, looking sexy, Johnny. Okay. Yes. Well that's what we do.Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:
All right, let me throw the ball. Okay. Per se, over to Mr. John Fark Summit Risk Solutions. Here we go. Okay. Following too close Johnny. Oh, why, why would you do that? Why? What is the reason for following too close? What is the reason for not following too close? Oh, obviously to me, somebody's in a rush and it's like, get the hell outta my way.John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions:
Come on. I'm trying to go. I wanna intimidate the guy in front of me and, you know, trying to get him to move over in the right, in, in the middle lane or get outta my way. Like what's, what's that old phrase, you know, lead follow or get the hell off onto the porch or something like that. I don't know. But yeah. What, why. What, what, what are we in such a big rush for? Well, because we get paid by the mile and not to go down that route again. What are you observing on the highways when you're out there? I am seeing. Too much following, too close. And, and I, I would hazard to say, I see it in a particular lane, even, you know, and, and, and don't get us wrong. This is in all types of vehicles, but the sad part is it's the bigger vehicles we see the most, you know, and, and it's these big monstrous trucks and trailers, multi axles, multi wheels going up and down the road. And I'm seeing we get into congestion areas and I. See guys that are just, you know, tractor trailer, tractor, trailer, tractor trailer. And they're all be lucky if you could get a car between the two of them. Yeah. And so I, I mean, I'm witnessing the exact same thing. Mm-hmm whenever I'm on the highway and I'm no Saint. When I'm out there on the highway. So in case anybody that thinks that I do my 95 in my car on a hundred K road, that's not what I'm saying. You're gonna get run over . So I am saying that I agree with you that I see. Um, and it doesn't matter which lane.Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:
And again, just this week I saw a tractor trailer in the prohibited left lane again. Oh, WTF. What are you doing out there? Yeah. Uh, Yeah. And he was out there or she, I shouldn't assume it was a he, but that truck driver was in the left prohibited lane for significant length of time. And of course, because they were governed, uh, they weren't going very fast as fast as everybody else wanted to go in the left lane. Mm-hmm now they're holding up traffic, giving us a bad rep. Yep. You know, anyways, what are the downsides, John? What, tell me why I shouldn't be pushing these cars outta my way.John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions:
Well, that's called aggressive driving, you know, now of a sudden you're just gonna. Peeve off the guy in front of you or better still, you're gonna peeve off the people behind you. And all it does is help give trucking a bad name. You know, like years ago we used to be the Knight of the road. You know, every truck driver was held to a high standard because they, they were polite, you know? And then yeah, you had the odd one that. Kind of ticked you off here and there, but we're seeing a lot more of that now, unfortunately, and, and, and we're just not, we're not helping ourselves to, um, clean up the image in the industry right now. You know, there's a lot of good drivers out there that are getting a bad rap because of a, you know, a handful of guys that just don't get it well, and I wanted to throw in there that, I mean, first of all, let's emphasize that you said there.Chris Harris, Safety Dawg:
A lot of good drivers out there. Yes. A lot of good ones. And we're not talking to those ones. No, but those ones who aren't in those good. And I'll bet you, if, if we were able to interview a driver, uh, and say, Hey, you know, we observed you following too close. Their response would be, no, I wasn't. Yeah. I had lots, lots of space. Yep. Right. Yep. Uh, but we both know, and we've done episodes on the past about six seconds following distance and why you need it scientifically and all that kind of stuff. Not to rehash that. Mm-hmm . But when we're out there on the roads, we know by observation that if something happened in front, there's no way that truck is coming to a full and complete stop with hitting something. An example, John, um, and this happens of course. Yep. I was working as an expert witness for a lawyer. So without giving too much detail, two trucks from the same company. Both in the right? No, but these guys were in the right hand lane, John. Yep. Okay. They're both in the right hand lane. Yep. In a snowstorm on the 4 0 1 mm-hmm and uh, the truck driver said the, the one following said I had lots of space. Mm-hmm uh, he said, but I, I looked and the, the guy I'm following hit his brakes mm-hmm and all of a sudden I couldn't stop in. So I glanced off the side of that truck as I mm-hmm, just made a small impact on the rear and went from the right lane and without giving all of the, the stuff away. Yeah. He went right into the, uh, hit the concrete median in, in the left. Extreme, left. Yeah. Okay. Two more lanes over. Yeah, well, two and a half, because he went through the shoulder and hit the concrete barrier and yes, I know it was snowing. And so there was adverse driving conditions, but yep. When I read the driver's statement, cuz this all goes to court now. Yep. Um, you know, the driver said I had adequate following distance mm-hmm he believed and it was a he in this case mm-hmm he believed in his heart. Yep. That he had adequate following distance and some jerk like me. Yep. Has to write that. No, if you can't come to a full and complete stop without hitting the vehicle that you're following. Yep. You did not have adequate following distance. Right. Exactly. And it comes as a shock to the driver yeah, unfortunately, because as I say, quite honestly in, I believe every word that I read of his statement, that he believed he had adequate following distance. Right. But it was the road conditions. Right. Yep. Wow. Aren't we supposed to drive according to conditions? Yes, we, we have to adapt to the road conditions. So Hey, if the roads are a little messy and sloppy and slippery, even just rain we'll make it slipperier. We need to back off more. So what we thought might have been adequate conditions in super dry, uh, nice clean pavement. Asphalt is no longer adequate when it's now sloppy and soupy out there. So we need to back off even. Yeah, and that's true, but let's go back to the dry road situation. Do we truthfully have adequate following distance on dry roads? Can you bring that 80,000 pounds of rolling death to a full and complete stop mm-hmm without evasive maneuvers, for example, without going to the shoulder of the trunk with the truck. Yep. So, well, and I think this is the problem where. Their, uh, perception per se of what adequate stopping distance or, or, uh, distance between the two vehicles is, is, is questionable because you kind of have to start going backwards now and go, okay. Where did you learn that this was adequate? You know, oh, well I learned it from some truck driver and another truck stop. And we had a chat one day and he told me, you know, if you did this well, there there's scientific studies out there. Uh, and there's lots of training and coaching opportunities to explain what is exactly the distance that you need, because there are numerous factors involved between perception, reaction, uh, brake lag, uh, and. The weight of the vehicle, the conditions of the, uh, of the asphalt, the road surface that you're on, because that'll all dictate different conditions again, because some asphalt is slipperier than others. Um, gravel roads are actually slipperier than asphalt, right. Because it's loose. Right. So, you know, so there's all kinds of things there that play into it. So you need to adjust your driving to the conditions that you're operating in. So I guess my question would. regardless of what adequate distance is between two vehicles. Why are you that close anyway? Why couldn't you even back off even further? Yeah. And I think, honestly, if you did back off even further that you might just enjoy your job more. Yes. And I know those damn four wheelers and some other truck drivers, if you do back off further are gonna take. Nice space away, but I tell you it, let them, let them take that space away. Let them have it because you've got, you know, most drivers have a spouse and children mm-hmm and maybe they're grandparents, or maybe they've got, you know, there's people that love them. Yep. Yep. It doesn't matter how you work it. Uh, you've gotta do your job. You've gotta make your money and you gotta get home safe. Everybody get home soon and every shift. Yep. Yep. Yep. Exactly. And it's the same, so. I'll give, I'll give a little example. This, this one might be hard to believe for a lot of people, but, um, um, I, I'm not a huge speeder by any means. Uh, but when I had my truck, so I, I, as we know, I've talked about before, I've had, I had a fleet of trucks back in the day and, uh, my last new truck was, uh, was a 2002 Peterbilt. And, uh, I actually had my drag drive for me. He drove my, uh, my 2099 Kenworth. We set. We set a challenge for ourselves, between my dad and myself, and, uh, it was all about fuel. Who could beat the other in fuel mileage. And the only way you were gonna beat fuel mileage was to get your foot off the pedal. And it was really interesting because you know, we'd go to different locations or we'd meet up the same area, but it was all about, Hey, I'm going here. I'm gonna go here. Let's see who gets the best fuel mileage. And we found that a prime speed to operate at was 95, 96 kilometers per. Okay. And, and I drove that for a very long time, uh, because in my truck, I got, I had an automatic transmission in that truck and it was all specked out particular for what I did. And I averaged, uh, just a hair under 12 mile to the gallon Canadian with that truck. And I always did 95, 96 kilometers an hour. Now I know I pissed people off because I was putting along and they'd have to go around me. Let him go around me. I never had to follow anybody. I had all the distance north. The cars would go by. No problem. You know, we never caused a wreck going that speed, but I got good fuel mileage, which was money in my pocket. My dad got fuel mileage. He was getting close to 10 mile a gallon with the Kenworth that he drove for me, you know, and it was a hoot and the silly part. We still got there at the same time. You know, we didn't lose much time getting there a couple of minutes maybe, but you know, you weren't hours behind, you know, but, and, and what was really interesting was I was super relaxed. You know, I wasn't clinging to the steering wheel doing 105 and slamming on a pedal to try and get it to its max on the, well, back then, we didn't have the regulators at that point, but nonetheless, you know, you weren't slamming at the floor to get it to do as much in as fast as it would go. It just, it did. There was no need for it. So, and, and it just made life easy and simple. I'll tell you there's a lot to be said for enjoying your job. Yes. Yes. Every day. Yes. Yes. Like, wouldn't that make you a better parent, if you. Came home, less stressed every day. Yep, exactly. Yep. You'd, you'd probably have a better attitude when meeting that pissy customer or that shipper receiver, because, Hey, I'm in a better mood. I'm smiling. I'm feeling good. I got a good night's sleep. I'm not killing myself, you know, and it, and it's funny because. We'll throw some regulations in here for a quick second. The speed limit on the highway says maximum 100 kilometers per hour. Doesn't mean you have to do a hundred or 105 just cuz your truck's governed to 105 doesn't mean you gotta slam the pedal little floor and get 105, you know, what do 95 do yourself a challenge and try that just like your hours of service. Does not say you have to max out at 13 hours in Canada or 11 hours in the us driving. You don't have to do that. Right. It's there if you need it. And if you have to run that hard because you think you need to make that kind of money, then maybe this isn't the career for you because when you are slamming it to the wall day in and day out, you are an unsafe. You certainly put yourself into a position that you might be in on unsafe. Like, because quite honestly, I, I remember when I was a younger man mm-hmm , um, coming home from Florida, uh, with my, at that time, my wife and my kids in the car. Yep. Yep. And I just finished two weeks of a glorious vacation. I was very well rested mm-hmm and I know I wasn't driving a tractor trail. I was driving a car, but I've got my kids in the car. Yep. Coming home from Florida that day I drove 18 hours. Mm-hmm. And I was fully rested and I would never put my children, uh, at risk. Yep. So I stopped when I started to get tired. Mm-hmm but because I had just finished two weeks of vacation mm-hmm I was rested. I couldn't do that every day. Never been the stress of being a tractor trailer driver or any commercial driver. Um, and of course this was a long time ago when I was younger, man. I don't think the traffic was nearly as heavy as it is today, with his, with all of the challenges and the new rules and the regulations and ELDs and dash cams. And yep. This all adds. I believe to the driver stress level. It does. It does agreed. And so we've started finally in our industry talking about truck driver, mental health mm-hmm and I think a lot of these things have added to the stresses of truck drivers. Yes. Yes. You know, and so anyways, oh, it, it stress. Yeah. Stress. Is gonna add to the behavioral change that a driver's gonna have or a person for that matter. Right. And, and, and it's gonna be a situation where you're gonna be, I'm in, I'm in a rush. I gotta get there. I gotta get there. I gotta make time up. I gotta do this. You know, and, and, and that's one of the downfalls of our industry is I'm sitting in a dock. I'm not getting paid to get paid by the miles. We mentioned in the beginning. And now I gotta go, go, go, go, go. Well, now I'm adding stress. I'm adding. To this. So I'm gonna take and make some risky moves. I'm gonna take some cha chances here because I need to make up some time when well, if we changed how we thought a little bit, and we looked at how we pay our drivers differently, you know, we're kind of going down this road here where, you know, if we change how we do. We could eliminate a lot of these problems because it would in turn slow. The driver down. There'd be no need to be in rush, cuz you would be counterintuitive to what you're doing. If, if I get paid by the hour, why the hell do I need to do a hundred mile an hour now? No, I'm getting paid a decent wage so I can take a longer coffee break. Sure why not? You know, but I think the, I think the thing is the mentality with drivers is I, I think owners are concerned that the driver's gonna take that longer lunch break, that longer coffee break. Well, in the trucking industry guys want go to work. They, they don't wanna sit around. Yeah. Yeah. So you're paying me 20 bucks an hour, but I'm not wanting to sit around. I wanna get moving. I got things to. I eventually want to get to my destination, turn around, get loaded and come back home to spend time with my family. And not only that, you actually, with the telematics today, we know when the truck has stopped. Yes. So drivers know that if they abuse the system, they're gonna be called up. So, yeah. All right. Let's I think we beat the, oh yeah. That horse dead, fairly blinking. So that was following distance. Let's switch to in, in this, I was going up to 400 highway for those of our listeners in the states. That's, uh, one of our, um, uh, what do you call her than the states? Interstate highways? Yep. So that's one of the interstate highways and I was going up in my car and I happened to be in the right hand lane for a change mm-hmm um, I was in the right hand lane and almost get pushed out of my lane by a truck, but it happened to be a straight truck. Yeah. Um, and so as I creep past the driver, I looked over and what did I say, Johnny? What do you think I saw. I'm bet he had something like this you know, and I'm thinking of, of course, both countries have the law that says commercial drivers, can't be touching their cell phone. Um, you know, and God, it just, oh yeah, it drives me crazy. And let's go on this rant because. I, I, I just, I'm gonna do, uh, this thing here, if you Google, and this is disgusting as far as I'm concerned that us men, cuz I, I have to say it's probably majority of men. I just Googled here, uh, because I thought it was in an. How do you say that word? Anomaly? I thought it was highly unusual. Right? I heard of a truck driver getting convicted for vehicular homicide in New York state a number of years ago because they proved in court. This driver was watching porn on his laptop, driving down the road. Well, I thought I could easily find that story. Yeah. Well, if you Google this, you can't easily find it because as we scroll through and look at all the different dates, you know, 20, 20, 20, 19, 20 21, 20 10, 20 10, 20 17, 20 20, like my God, aren't some of us at least convert. Pigs. Yeah. Um, anyway, I, I just, so this is another form of distracted driving. Oh, huge. Huge. So let's talk about that. Yeah. Well, if you wanna watch the video, well then park the damn truck. Sit in a safe place. Relax. Watch your porn. Watch your football game, cricket game hockey game, whatever you want. Well, then let's go back. Let. Um, promote watching that. No, no junk, but, but, but, but, but the thing is if you wanna watch that video. Yeah. But if you wanna catch that game and I know there's a lot of people, you know, that love football soccer yes. That wanna watch the game or whatever, then park the damn truck for that hour or whatever time and watch the game, you know, in the safe place. Don't be trying to catch the game while you're trying to do your job and drive down the road like, oh, next thing you're gonna do. You're gonna be falling too close. Well, you're not doing your job. Well, I mean, you off camera were telling me about the story about the driver being pulled in for an inspection. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I was talking to a, an MTO enforcement officer one day and, and he was telling me how, uh, you know, they waved the driver in, bring the lights in and whatnot, and they asked the driver to stop there at the window so they could talk to him. And the, and the, and the driver actually said to the officer just a minute and he had to reach over. And he had his phone on a stand on the dash in front of his steering wheel. And he had to pause the video that he was watching. So he didn't miss a spot. So then he could have a chat with the officer about what the officer wanted and the officer was just appalled. And thinking, first off, you paused me to pause a video. Like, what are you doing? You know? And, uh, needless to say, he wasn't holding the. So he thought he was totally legal and which is not the case. So the, the officer charged him with careless driving. Yeah. And for our listeners and our viewers, I would refer back to, was it David Conley? Who, who was our guest that we had on that talked about, um, how they can go into your mobile phone and do the forensic oh, uh, uh, Uh, Jason, Jason from, uh, yeah. Um, and Vista. Yeah. Yes, right? Yes. Yeah. They can, they can do a forensic audit on your, on your phone and find out everything and what time and what gigabytes and all that good stuff. So, yeah, no. And so if I remember, I, I will put a link to that, uh, episode right here, because that was a great, it was episode if, uh, for our listeners and reviewers, um, you know, click that link and listen to him and tell you about how they can dig deep through your electronic device. Mm-hmm and find out exactly what the heck you were doing. Um, so don't be doing that, that. Distracted driving just well is. Yeah. And, and it's more than just the phone as, as we're kind of looking to, but also at the same time, a lot of drivers will think, but I've got my headset on my Bluetooth. I'm I'm good to go. No, you're not because even though your phone is sitting over here and you're talking through it here and your hands are on the. Your mind is not in control of this vehicle that you're operating. You're now gonna, you can't think of driving and the conversation you're having at the same time. It's proven we cannot multitask. Yes. And the, the other part of that, too, of course, in. I understand drivers wanting to stay connected with their friends and their family. And, and I think the cell phone is very important and it's a great tool. However, when you start out with that, um, initial phone call and I'm thinking more to a spouse, you, you think you're just doing a check call and, and it's gonna be very pleasant, but not every phone call. People that mean a lot to us goes as we plan. And if it gets into anything other than a high deer, how are you? How's your day going? You are absolutely distracted. Yep, exactly. You know, if you get into the pending divorce or the problem with the children and all the other things that life. Is all about dispatch is pushing me to get where I need to go. And I'm pissed off with those guys. I'm looking for a new job and, you know, your mind is not on the task of operating that commercial motor vehicle. Yeah. Or any vehicle for that matter. Uh, I tell you it's. Some of the stuff that we expect our drivers to do is counterproductive. It is, it is to the way we dispatch them to the way our customers, our shippers treat them and to general wellbeing. Um, mm-hmm, , you know, you and I are both believed that some changes are. Yeah to our industry, unfortunately, not fast enough. No, but I do believe some changes are coming positive changes. Yep. Yep. To make things better. Um, I just wish they would come quicker. Yeah, well, but the, the thing is too. Us as individuals, you know, the drivers, people listening to the, to, to our view, our show, the viewers and whatnot, they can make a change themselves. You don't have to wait for an industry to make a change. You know, you can make a conscious decision to say, I'm gonna be better at what I do. I'm I'm, I'm gonna stop this. And I wanna give an example here of a, a customer I dealt with many years ago when I was at Zurich and, uh, they were out of, uh, BC and they were at tanker operation. They hauled, uh, Gasoline diesel and whatnot, and interesting enough, uh, this company thought they were the cats. Meow, you know, ah, we're good. No, no. They got these awards from Esso and shell and whatnot. Well, interesting enough. Um, the, one of the, it was a family that owned it and one of the, one of the family members who was kind of the CEO he's, um, um, having to deal with the crash and the crash was a roll. It was a set of a set of trains fuel and it happened in the city of Abbotsford. Okay. Uh, and there'll be, people that'll know who I'm talking about. Uh, if they're from Abbotsford anyway, this happened, I think back in the early two thousands. And anyway, he, they had to evacuate half the city because the fuel got into the storm drains and the water system, and they were worried about fumes. They were worried about ignition and they were worried about a big explosion. And what was interesting is his name is all over the trucks and trailers, right? So what really hit home for him was not the crash. It was the publicity that came from the crash because his kids went to the same arena to play hockey is all the neighborhood kids. And when he's at there, the, all the parents are going. That's the guy that put me outta my home for. Uh, that's the guy that shut the city down. That's the guy that runs the company to do this and do that. And that's when he realized he was no longer the catch me out. So they did a big investigation. Interesting enough. Part of the pro part of the cause of that crash was driver on his mobile phone distracted. Okay. So they put in a policy no more mobile phones, dispatchers were banned from calling drivers. Um, no more. They had a Qualcomm system that. Old, it was Qualcomm system in the truck. And that's how you will reach the drivers. You will communicate through that only. And that means if the driver's moving, the system's locked, you won't reach the driver until he gets to his next destination. Then it'll ping. Tell him he's got a message. He'll answer it through that. You cannot call him through his phone. And likewise. The drivers are not allowed to use their phone while in the vehicle, you cannot have that phone in your workplace. And he set up an inspection process that whenever you came into one of the terminals, okay, you would come into the, to the dispatch office, somebody in another office would see you come in, they would go out and they would inspect your vehicle. If your cell phone was in the truck and it was active. You were immediately terminated. Wow. That's how harsh she was. Uh, and it was all because of this crash, cuz he said, I do not want to have a company that is ashamed to work with the community and uh, and whatnot. So, and, and when I last saw him, which would've been 2012, I think it was that policy was still in place and very, very. And, uh, every guy, every driver guy and girl that drove into a terminal, whichever terminal location, there was somebody there that was designated. You go out, check that driver's truck. Uh, you would check it for not just for the phone, but you would check for cleanliness, uh, make sure that it was properly organized and whatnot. Things were clean and tidy, uh, as well. If you saw the phone out, uh, like sitting in a cup holder or in a steep pocket or something, you would check the phone and if it was turned on, That was grounds for dismissal and that was in their policy and procedures. So if the phone was turned off, then not a problem. Okay, cool. If there was no phone in the vehicle, right. Then they would ask, did the driver have it on in his person? Uh, or was it stashed away somewhere? And they would ask to see it. And if it was turned on, you know, Then that was grounds for dismissal. So the drivers knew you don't have the phone. There's no need to have this phone. And if you needed to talk to somebody due to an emergency, you pulled over at a safe location and they encouraged you to get off the road, park the truck, and then make that phone call. So, and, and I would add to that sentence legally park. Yes. Legally park, correct? Yes. Yeah. You know, but, but he's only one company that I ever knew that was strong. To make that decision. I find so many other companies are like, yeah, I'd love to do that, but I couldn't do that. Well, why can't you do that? Well, I need to communicate with my drivers. It's why do you need to communicate with your drivers? He must have had a. Company that drivers wanted to work for. Oh, oh. Lineup of drivers line of drivers. So he couldn't, he could do a policy like that. So, and this is a different episode, but you need to make your company, that company where people are begging to work for you. They'll oh, they'll come. You know, so, and part of it would be provide a safe working environment. Hey yep. Johnny. Exactly. We're running outta time, buddy. I can't. We talked about, oh my God. I know we talked about following too close and distracted driving. Do you wanna wrap up distracted driving? Don't do it. Don't drive distracted. Simple as that. I know it's hard. I, I understand how hard it is, you know, we've all had that problem and, and, and the technology is so easy to get you wrapped up in it, you know? Yeah. But even, even in my vehicle, when I drive my phone goes in my console and I put it down, uh, yes, I will have the odd conversation through my, um, my Bluetooth in the vehicle. You know, we'll, we'll do the hands free there, but. I'm now cognizant much more than I was years ago of that conversation to go, okay, hang on. I'm in the middle of heavy traffic, I'll call you back later. Or I, if this is gonna be a long conversation, why don't I wait till I get stopped? Or if it's important, hang on. Just pause. While I get pulled off to the side of the road, let me get off of this ramp here, get parked somewhere and we can have this conversation. And, and I actually had that the other day on Wednesday, uh, speaking with a. Client that I'm doing some work with and he, he wanted to talk and I said, cool, no problem. And I just happened to be coming up to an area. I pulled off into this business and it was after six o'clock and I just parked the car and it was hot out. So I left it running and, and we talked for 20 minutes and it was perfect. Because I could concentrate on the conversation we needed to have and not where I was trying to go. And the conversation just wasn't gonna happen. Right. So, so you did two things, you serviced your client much better by being able to concentrate and actually hear and really participate in that conversation. And of course you did it safely. Yep. Exactly. Exactly. And so I got home 20 minutes later than I intended to, but my wife was like, yeah, no problem. Glad you're home safe. Thank you. Yeah, she got home safe. Yay. I think with that, Johnny let's wrap her up. All right. Thanks everyone for sticking around. If you are getting value from this, and if you made it this far, you must be click the like and leave us a comment. Topic, would you like John or I to address or John and I to address? Or do you have a guest speaker that you would like to hear from leave those notes in the comments? And I thank everybody for leaving our comment. That's it. For this week, the trucking risk and insurance podcast. John Fark, Chris Harris. We're outta here.