Trucking Risk and Insurance Podcast

Accident Preventability, How To Determine

March 18, 2022 John Farquhar & Chris Harris Season 2 Episode 21
Trucking Risk and Insurance Podcast
Accident Preventability, How To Determine
Show Notes Transcript

John is going deep into accident and crash preventability. How can this affect your profit?

John Farquhar
Summit Risk Solutions: summitrisksolutions.ca
1 226 802-2762
John@summitrisksolutions.ca
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-farquhar-9b88771a2/?originalSubdomain=ca

Chris Harris
Safety Dawg Inc: safetydawg.com
Chris@SafetyDawg.com
1 905 973 7056
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/3764255/admin/

If you are a carrier that stays within the 160 kilometer radius, you've got to look into ready. Check that's R E a D Y C H E k.com. They offer a system where it makes it easier for the drivers to do their vehicle inspections, record them, notify you, and they even get to record the hours of service. Check it out@readychek.com. That's ready. check.com and use promo code S D 22. And you'll get a free one month. So SD 22. If you want to check them out. Now let's get into the episode. Hey, welcome to the trucking risk and insurance podcast, where John Farquhar and I, your hosts, we talk about, and we get guests on different shows this week. Our topic is accident preventability and you want to stick around because I think the key to this is how does it affect your profitability? So you're going to do some work to determine if the accident is preventable, but why? And it's because it hits your bottom line. So with that, let's get John. My co-host in here a good morning, Johnny. Good morning, Chris. How's life going over there and the big Hamilton smoke town. Well, it's, it's awesome. I haven't been out well. I got outside this morning, obviously, but I haven't been outside. You're talking about the beautiful weather. I don't have a window. I'll go inside. As soon as we're finished, I'm heading outside. There you go. Perfect. Sounds like a plan. All right, John, you wanted to talk about accident preventability or crash preventability Yup. Yup. Why is this important? Well, you know what happened in what you and I do for a living and helping motor carriers kind of manage their risk? One of the things that, you know, usually ties in here is crashes. And, you know, we talk about trucking risk and then insurance. Well, what do insurance companies do? They insure you in the event of a crash. So, but one of the challenges we have to do is we have to figure out how to not to have crashes. So that way we can manage our premiums, cyber insurance policy to try and keep some of that money in our genes and not give it away to everybody. So this becomes the challenge with a lot of motor carriers is trying to figure out, well, what's this preventability thing. How do I determine preventability? I just thought, you know, it was at fault, not at fault, what's this preventability stuff you're talking about. Let's spend a minute and talk about the difference between preventability that fault. Cause I think that's, yes, that is key because you mentioned Hey insurance, but, and well, I shouldn't say, but, and the insurance companies are largely worried about, are we at fault, but what's the difference between asphalt and preventability? So, so at fault is, you know, where you as a driver, do something incorrect and your driving performance and you cause a crash, you know? So something as simple as, you know what, making a lane change, I changed lanes and hit the car to my right. I didn't bother looking and I just boom away. I went and oh my gosh, now I'm at fault for causing this incident and causing all this damage. So there's a, an example of an at fault situation. So now you could have the same situation, you're in one lane, current in the lane to your right, but they come in to you. Right. So that would mean I'm not at fault, so, okay. I'm off the hook. Well, not necessarily because is there something you could have done to possibly prevent that incident from happening? Right. And that's what we want to kind of look at. Okay. So, and you're, you're absolutely right. You, you remind me of the story. When I had a crash as a truck driver and I got this preventability letter from the safety department, and of course I immediately ran down to the safety department, all angry because they said my crash was preventable and my words were preventable. You didn't read my report, obviously, because that wasn't my fault. And the safety manager said, no, no, Chris, we're not talking about fault here. You didn't. And that's when they explained preventability to me. So to truck drivers out there, please understand preventable. And that fault are two different things. Totally two different things. And the story just really quick, he told me, he said, Hey, Chris, you're, you're approaching an intersection. And the light ahead of you is, is red. But with all of your experience, you know, by the time you get there, it's going to be green. And sure enough, by the time you get there, it's green and you enter the intersection only to be T-boned by somebody running the red light. Absolutely not your fault. You had the green light, we got dash cam video to show you had the green light, but was it preventable? And of course in that case, it is preventable because I didn't slow down. I didn't look both ways before entering the intersection. I didn't do everything that a reasonable truck driver, a professional truck driver should have done before entering the intersection. So it a preventable crash, but not in a fault crash. And why is that so damn important to the insurance industry? Well, because there's opportunity to learn. We can with preventability, we can learn what we could do differently in the future so that we don't have those types of crashes or those crashes at all in the future. You know, you, you you'd hit the nail on the head. When you said that as a driver, we're a professional driver. So as a professional driver, we're held to a much higher standard than the public drivers are, right? The private drivers. So the courts are looking at this, the insurance providers are looking at this, that we have the training. We should be having the training. We should be receiving the training to help us become that professional driver and hone our skills that we are better than anybody else on the road. So as a commercial professional commercial driver, we're held to a higher standard. So when it, when it comes to at fault, not at fault, we should really not be having any at fault claims. So we should be able to learn how to prevent future claims because of our skills, our training, and the ability that we have gained over the years and the education of being a better, better driver. Well, and not the drivers held to a higher level of responsibility. And I just want to stress. So as the company, because the company is the one that's supposed to, and we could do another whole show, one truck driver training or the lack thereof, but you're supposed to be the law says, and this is what carriers don't sometimes understand. The law says occupational health and safety law. And that type of stuff says you are supposed to be training your employees and your operators continuously. And so many trucking companies fail. However, that's not today's topic. We won't go down that rabbit hole. We're talking about accident, crash preventability and why it's so damned important. So you're telling me, we got to analyze our crashes. Is this what you're leading to? Exactly. Exactly. Yes. Analysis. That's what we want to do. So you've got, yeah. And now there's a big word for you. Yes. So, and, and, and, and the challenge is, is trying not to get what we call paralysis by analysis. That can be a problem. And so, oh, geez. Chad likes her hats. This is good. They're not ready. Check green chat, but they're, they're trip blue. So a lot of carriers do a pretty decent job at gathering crash data. So, you know, we've had a crash, we're taking the phone call from the driver, we're getting some information from the driver data information, and then the drivers taking pictures of the scene and the vehicles and stuff like that. And then they'll come back, fill out an incident form, provide some more details. And then all this information is going to be shared with the insurance company. It'll go to the claims department and basically deal with the claim, file the claim and whatnot. And that's got about it. That's where a lot of motor carriers stop. You know, the safety departments aren't going any further to analyze that incident. So in today's day, we have lots of great telematics data coming from the vehicle dash camera footage coming from the vehicle. So there's all this electronic data that I'll give credit to the companies for putting these things into play. But they're not realizing that this data can also help them to analyze the crash for preventability purposes. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's huge because of course, if you're involved in a serious enough crash that your insurance company's got to settle it, they're going to be looking at all of this stuff, telematics that, and the dash cam data. And even if you are not at fault through this legal term, when we should do it, we, we got to get a lawyer on the show one day to talk about joint and several legal liability through joint and several legal liability, your insurance policy, a hundred percent of your insurance policy could be at risk, even in a crash that you're not at fault. Right. Right. So, and then God forbid it gets to the courts because now the courts can spin it on you and go, yeah, the driver wasn't at fault for that incident, but he could have prevented it from happening. So the driver who is that professional commercial operator, didn't do what he should have done to prevent the incident from happening. Well, you can't prevent an incident from happening if you don't know what it is, you didn't write. Right. Or you did wrong. And that becomes the challenge. So, you know, Hey, I wasn't at fault from the crash. And a lot of times the buck stops there and it's like, no, no, no, no. There's so much more we should do to determine, was it preventable? What can we learn from this opportunity to prevent this from happening with our other drivers? So now it creates training opportunities. How do we determine preventability John? What's the process we've talked about it, but Yep. So, so, so the analysis portion of it is, is gathering all this data, you know, get the boardroom table out, get your collision review committee. And if you don't have a collision review committee develop one, and it's pretty easy. It's people from within your organization, it could be your dish. One of your dispatchers, a maintenance manager, the safety manager by all means maybe the secretary that runs the front desk and answers a phone. And Hey, let's bring in a driver or an owner operator for good measure. Okay. And bring these folks together. And what you do is you get different looks at the incident from DNI balls. And I always like to say, people will go, well, why am I bringing the reception? And she knows nothing about trucking. Exactly. She's looking at it from a car driver perspective. So she's going to be able to give an insight that other people are going to go, oh, I hadn't thought of that. That's a great idea. You know, so having these people around the boardroom table to start looking at the data and we start looking at, okay, well, what was the environment of the crash that day? What was the weather like? What was the road layout? What was the road texture? How fast was the driver going? So now we bring in the telematics data, the vehicle, you know, at what point during the crash that he applied the brakes, you know, we can even measure was the signal light on at the time, was he looking to make a lane change or not using the dash cam footage? So all this great information to analyze that crash, to go, what really happened at that incident? What was going on? Plus you have the report from the driver. So with that information, we're able to kind of go, okay, well, we can see more about what happened and maybe why it happened. So the trick is we want to start to document our findings. We want to be able to create a report per se. And that's where this tool comes in, that you and I were talking about this morning. So I like to use the acronym, CV, Pam C V P a. I was just going to say who you call on a tool, but we'll let that one go. The two of us could be monkey wrenches, but keep them in monkey wrenches or usable or use it very useful. Cause we're adjustable anyway. But so the CV, Pam, the long name for it is commercial vehicle preventable accident manual. And He said that I need to go for a bologna sandwich now. Cause I'm hungry after saying all that I'm just wore out. So anyway, but this is a, a manual, a document, a tool that was created in conjunction with the U S D O T back in the nineties. So these, these very smart doctors were brought together to develop a product that would help to determine preventability in a situation of a crash. And, and this manual looks at multiple various types of crashes, you know, right turn, I hit a vehicle left turn. I hit a vehicle intersection following too close sideswipe, Jack knife, you know, roll over all these neat different types of graduates that we have. So in the manual and we'll bring up a page and demonstrate kind of a little bit how it works, but in the manual, there's probably a crash. That'll fit everything that's out there. You know? And, and I've shared this with all kinds of customers to kind of help them in their role of determining preventability. So Once We've determined printable, Before we go on and you're still willing to share it, right? John, john@summitrisksolutions.com John@summitrisksolutions.ca. So you can get a copy of this. You can email either one of us, but certainly Johnny the guru on this one. So I kind of default to Johnny. Nope, no problem. No problem. So yeah, so, so, so the trick is using this document to help you to determine was the incident preventable or not, but the next steps are okay, we've determined is preventable. Now what, wow. Guess what? This tool provides a second manual that goes with it. That talks about countermeasures. What do we now do to countermeasure to prevent this from happening in the future? And that's where we bring in the fact of extra training. I got a question for you. I mean, I'm getting mad as you're talking about this now, because you've never shared this with me before. What the hell out of a friend is this? I'm sorry. I, I just, yeah, it kinda sits in my, in my list of tools, but unfortunately it's one of those unknown little deals that, that, that kind of doesn't get used all the time. But I have to admit this past three weeks, I've seen so many clients where this tool has come in and said, you need to be implementing this into your programs. Right? And, and the only reason I see the use of this is when I go to see a client that their losses are off the chart, the frequency is high, their severity is very high. And then usually I dig in and start finding out, well, what are you not doing? Why are your losses off the chart? And then you start to find out they're not analyzing the losses. They're not trending. They're not looking at root cause and whatnot. So this tool will help in those Derek. And that's where it kind of come up. And I said, I thought my head, I thought, you know what? I need to share this with Chris. And we should do a podcast about it. So here we are In John's Company and yeah, exactly. If you're a good company and not having a lot of losses, you're already implementing something like this and this isn't new by any means. This has been around since the nineties and a lot of companies, a lot of companies may already be using this. So this is where those guys that are doing a good job have probably already got a review process in here. So, And there, Chad says he can't share everything on the first day, but you know, I'm glad I said, And this is Chad from ready check by the way. But you know, glad you said first day and not first date. Thank you. I just about misread that John and I were friends, but There are limits a long time now. We're not sure our wives are jealous at all by any means. So they're like, know, go, go play with your little friends. Are you going to share your screen? Yeah. So let's, let's, let's kind of bring this up. Let's let's do a little share here Because we practiced this before the, the thing to make sure that John knew exactly. Well, I knew what I was doing here so that I could make sure that Chris, Chris could do what he was doing. And I went and buggered it up. John, see what happens. Even practice does not always make perfect. There we go. There we go. Show up. So, so what this is, this is just one of the worksheets within this, this document. So this is a WSI, here's the, here's the title page of this introduction to the commercial vehicle, preventable accident, manual worksheet supplement. So, so I'm not going to get into all the details of it right now, other than we're, we're kind of wanting to, let's just kind of walk through and show how this, this tool will work. So let, let's just say we had a, a right squeeze incident here. So you'll see the picture up on the top, right? This is Ws nine. So worksheet nine, and this is showing a picture of a truck that's making a right-hand turn vehicles come up and squeezed into his right-hand side. And they've obviously made contact and had an incident. So the question being is this preventable, and I know a lot of people would go, well, no, it's, it's, it's not preventable because that guy squeezed up on my right. And there's no way I could have stopped it. I'm not at fault for it. Cause he got in there and it's like, well, you know what? You might not be at fault, but there's, there's a few things that we can, we can definitely look at here that can determine preventability a little bit better. I know I'm not on the screen right now, but it is a hundred percent preventable. Yes, exactly. So I'm going to, I'm going to zoom in here a little bit so we can see so interesting of this, this sheet is, is full of all kinds of information and check boxes. Okay. So you can kind of go through which one of these now this is, yes. It's still on paper. This is a PDF document. I have not found this in electronic format at all. Chad, I wish it was. Maybe I could access somebody like yourself that could help us turn it into an electronic tool. Like an Excel spreadsheet would be awesome. Anyway. So I just want to kind of show you some interesting things that within this document you will see that there is some bold or a little darker text. Okay. And this text actually applies to this particular worksheet. Okay. So little, little sideswipe in a turning situation. So there's no problem. Continue on. Ah, there you go. Yep. So, so in this case here, it's pointing out for four different line items here that go failure to use your mirrors, failure, to scan spaces to the side, failure, to block the area to the right and failure to use your turn signals. So these are possibilities of what maybe didn't happen during that situation, which would have helped us prevent this from happening. So, you know, this is where the analysis portion goes through to go, okay, well, let's find out what's this signal on, you know, do we have any evidence that his signal was on? Do we have any telematics data to say what speed he was going, what lane he was in at the time, was he able to block the lane and stuff along that line? Now, from there we take, and we go over to the right-hand column here, which is called our countermeasures and same thing here, it's already bolded. Some countermeasures measures that it says would be helpful in addressing these situations. So in this case, we look at some defensive driving right away, turning left and right using and changing lanes. So cool. Maybe we've gone through this, we've ticked off a couple of these and we found out yep. You know what? We could have done a better job at blocking the area to the right hand side. And maybe the driver didn't have his turn signal on until he was ready to turn not ahead of time. So I didn't let that car know to us. Right. So all of a sudden we might have a couple items, so perfect enough. We've got some opportunity we can document down at the bottom of the page here and make some notes who it was investigated by. And the date now let's have a little fun because the next page talks about the counter measures. This is where we go into the countermeasures. So this is the other document. And here we bring up the right turn squeeze. I've never seen this before Johnny. And I'm telling you, this is from a safety and a compliance point of view from preventing future crashes. This is huge. Oh, it is. It is. And, and, and the sad part is this is no longer in publication. The U S D O T does not have it on their website anymore. The company that designed it is down at the bottom here, the page trial dine incorporated does not, does not produce it anymore. I believe you can buy a copy of it through JJ Keller, but they really don't promote it very well. It's unfortunate because this has really got some good information in it. And it's still all relevant today. You know, technology hasn't changed anything as to how our driver behaviors work and how we operate a commercial motor vehicle. So that's where this has really cool. Yeah. And, and I liked Chad's idea of an electronic document. I don't think in the coming weeks, I bet you, I could turn this into an electronic checkbox type format. It would be neat. Maybe Chad wants to work with us. Co-develop And I look at what Chad's saying now. All right. And this is great stuff, John. I agree. I, as I say, I'm ashamed that I didn't even know about it. Well, you know what, don't don't feel bad cause there's a lot of people that don't know about it, unfortunately, you know, and, and I'm trying to find it as a challenge. You know, I, I scoured the internet. I knew of this document back probably 10 years ago, 10, 15, 10, 12 years ago. And I didn't know where it was because I didn't have an old copy of it or anything like that. And, and then just a couple of years ago, I was able to track down one on the internet and it was, it's a PDF copy. And it just happened to be floating around there somewhere, to be honest with you. And then what I did is I, I, I kept it and then I scanned it or not scanned it, sorry I printed it. And I created a bound manual for it. So at least I'd have the, the original aspect in case anything ever happened. So, so let's carry on with the countermeasures. Yeah. I was just going to say, we we've only got a few minutes left trying to keep it relatively close to our 30 minute timeline, but don't forget the timer on the screen that you can see add two minutes to it. So we still got time here. Yes. Cool. Perfect. Okay. So what, I will just take two of these just to give you an example. So in this case here, we're looking at four different countermeasures here. So turning left and right. Defensive driving right away using and changing lanes. So now this is the countermeasure manual. So now what we want to do is we want to go to each of these countermeasures to see how they would apply and what training we could do. So in the case of , we would go down to it. It is on page 22, 2 2 2 2, Holy smokes. So it gives you the, the documentation for each countermeasure. Exactly what that counter measure means. Is that what you're showing us? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So here we go. <em></em> defensive driving. So let me just kind of back out a little bit so we can see the whole document. All right. So it shows that picture again, of us turning, right, right. And crowding the vehicle to our right countermeasures, the objective to prevent accidents by trying to anticipate hazardous situations and adjusting driver behavior to compensate whoa, adjusting driver behavior to compensate. They were using this terminology back in the nineties. We talk about it. Like it's something new It's There. So, so the description, the defensive driver tries to recognize potential hazard situation sufficiently in advance to allow time safely maneuver past them. The defensive driver assumes that other drivers may make mistakes and is on guard in the event, an error is made the defensive drivers searches ahead of what is immediately in front to have advanced warning of approaching hazards. This goes right back to what we talk about. Being that professional driver being held to a higher standard, you need to be aware of this before it ever happens. And before you ever get into the situation you need to be going, Hey, how do we make sure I don't get in a situation coming up here? I'm going to turn right at this light. And I need to swing far left to get around the corner. So we need to be aware of so opportunity here is questions for management. Do you periodically have a qualified person right along with drivers to evaluate their defensive driving habits? Notice here, it said questions for management, not drivers, it's management management. What are you doing to train the drivers and evaluate the drivers? Right? So a drivers recognize a common situation such as crossing intersection center, expressways and stopping can be hazardous. Do they know this? So this is where you get to take this stuff. And now you can create training for corrective actions, preventability actions and whatnot. Then we get down into driving tips and we talk about learning to recognize driving situations that can be hazardous. Assume other drivers will make errors, adjust your speed, scan ahead. You know, this is where the training now comes in to go, okay, how do I prevent this right here? It just laid out the map work to say, if you do these things here, this will help your drivers to prevent this from happening. Damn. And you know, my mind is just churning here, Johnny, because you know, I've got my five minutes safety videos, and I always struggle for new topics. And I bet you, I can go through here and come up with a couple of hundred new topics. Oh yes. Easily. Easily. Yup. Yeah. Little tips and tricks about how to, you know, here's some perfect examples. So yeah. So this, so this, this topic in particular showed us four different countermeasures, right? <em></em> well, there's be two. And then if we scroll down, we'll find, we'll find, be a tier or be six. There you go be six. And then two more down, you got be eight, right? So all this ties in. So you would look at each one of these countermeasures to say, how does it apply to the situation we had happened? And then how can we put training into place? And an opportunity is there's training out there already. So a lot of times we may not have to reinvent the wheel to put in training to prevent future incidents. Yeah. Whoops, to me, I think that's huge. Sorry. I, I changed screens there. I didn't know. I'm not in control any longer. Well, come on back. Let's go. Oh there. Okay. So now you've changed the back and I will go, oh, look at that. And I missing. So I, there we go back. I think that's huge though, John, I didn't realize there was such a document out there and I know you're sending it, sending it to me. I've already sent it to me. And if our listeners and viewers want to copy it is john@summitrisksolutionsdotcaigotitrightthistime.ca And then don't be afraid to reach out to chris@safetydog.com. And he's got a copy. He'll share with you. And I do it. It's just my mind's going about new training videos. My mind is just , you know, so Hey, and for anybody that's listening, training videos, the dog speaks is what it's called. And you can find some of them. I think I got some on YouTube, but mostly it is a paid subscription type thing I like are, are, you know, one of my favorite suppliers is carriers edge of good trucking on training videos. I'll give a shout out to carriers edge. My videos are not nearly as sophisticated and well slicked up. I'll not select up well produced would be the right term, but it is a truck driver talking to truck drivers kind of simple. Exactly. Exactly. Which can be very helpful when you have that conversation to help guys better understand what's going on. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and I try to keep the video short, but Johnny accident preventability I don't know if I bought that. So you've got this, you've got it available. You'll email it to anybody who wants to give you a shout at John at S what's your company again, a safe summit revert Resolutions. All right. So email Johnny, he'll give you a copy. All right. And of course, And one of the things that we, one of the things we also do is if you're looking for assistance in how to sit down and create an analysis process, that's something that we do. I come out, I mentor your people in your team to sit down and we'll look at right from scratch of an incident. We'll look at, we'll start to determine the root cause of a root cause of that incident. We'll analyze that portion. Then we'll start trending your crashes over a certain period of time. So you can see what's going on there. And then we bring in the preventability manual so that we can look at what can we do to prevent this. And then one of the other things I like to throw out there is a loss lessons, right? We create a message system where we can get this out to all the other drivers, to be able to say, Hey, we're want to help you prevent having an incident in the future. So because usually nine times out of 10, when you have a guy that has a rollover, well, you know what? It just costs us maybe half a million dollars. Well, that's a half a million dollars where the training, you just spent on that driver and the likelihood of him having another rollover pretty low, but we can't predict the other drivers. So we want to get that message to the other drivers. So I think the key that I heard from you is, first of all, you want to analyze each individual crash and which may result in individual training for each driver, but then correct. You want to analyze the fleet and all of your crashes to look at some trends. And then you can have some fleet wide training programs to address some of the trends individually. That's it Exactly. Well, one last thing you had it in the beginning. When you talked about what's this going to provide us all in the end and you thought you'd mentioned profitability, and that comes in in the eyes of, Hey, if I can prevent these future incidents from happening, I'm going to lower my crash ratio. I'm going to improve my loss runs with regards to my premiums, which is going to end up putting in more pocket, more money in my pocket because I'll have less crashes means less deductibles, less deductibles means my loss run looks better, which is going to help me manage my premiums on my insurance. I was going to say, and it's all about premiums. I mean, the companies can afford so many deductibles, but the big hurt is always the premium. So if you want to be more profitable, you've got to analyze your crash data and then do some training and Hey, you might want to bring John or I in to help you analyze it. But also John and I both do driver training. So if you want a, let's do a quick add here. If you want to have somebody come out and speak to your drivers, invite John Mariah to come out. Right? So that's something that John, that was a great episode. Thanks so much. And like, I'm ashamed to say, I didn't, hadn't seen this before and you've got my mind kind of blowing in my mind is turning. And I think Chad is also thinking along similar lines. How can Chad use this? Chad has a great product out there at radio check, and I'm sure he's thinking, Hey, maybe I can roll this into anyways. I don't know what Chad's thinking, but I appreciate him. Appreciate Chad from ready check for coming on and Right. Is that By the way? Oh, we just, we looked so good. Looking here with these hats. I'm telling you, just like, keep an eye out for us. We're going to be a truck world. We're going to be walking around, showing off our new hats. So, Yeah. And I'm glad you mentioned that truck world is coming up in April. He live event human beings, walking elbow to elbow. And I haven't determined yet whether I'm going to wear my mask for truck roll. I I'm still going like this. You know, when do I stop wearing a mask? Damn, most people would have preferred if I wear a mask just to cover up this plus. But you know, Hey, That's a different thing altogether, Johnny. I want to thank you. That was a great episode, Chad. Sorry. Chad just said exactly. Chris. Exactly. Chris. What? Which part? What are you agreeing with Chad? I read my mind. Yes. I think we're ready to get rid of the masks. Yes. Oh, well, I'm not sure if he's talking about that or if he's talking about how he can possibly use the accident. Preventability determination. Sorry. In along with ready check. Can we win one? Oh, Hey there. You know, contest that Chad brings up an interesting idea. There. Should we run a contest one day and, and oh, ready. Chuck is going to be there. Ready? Check us out. The truck world. You got a booth Chason. Awesome. And if you have a booth, do you know your booth number? Because I think people should check the air Podcast. Now. That was funny. Oh, I don't know what he said. We have a delay. Me Twitter conversation. We're not sure what you're talking about. We're totally funny. We have no idea what we're funny about though. Yeah, we do a rock. We'll have to have, yeah, we'll have to have a chat with Chad later here. We'll get caught up on all this banter. 'cause we got to wrap it up here. We're almost hitting like 35 minutes. Oh my God. Yeah, there you go. People got to go have their tea and I need a bologna sandwich after all that that's for me out. Oh, that was beautiful. Johnny. I gotta thank you for that because I learned so much. And with that, let's bring it up and conclude it. If you are getting valued, let me see if, oh, Chad's going to be there. He doesn't have a booth, but if you're getting value from this, I do like, and comment and leave us your thoughts and reach out to John, John. And I'll put, obviously in the show notes down below John's email address is there john@summitrisksolutions.ca and he will help you out with this accident preventability stuff. And I just want to say thanks to Johnny Mike host, because that was awesome. I always learned something on these shows, but I learned a hell of a lot today, which is really good. So I got to thank my partner, John Johnny, let me just bring you back in here so we can say, or a dues, a, a group buys or, you know, Hey, it's a weekend. Cool. Have a great weekend, everybody. And you too, Chris. Enjoy. All right. Thanks buddy. We'll talk soon. Have a great weekend, everybody. That's it for this week. Trucking risk and insurance podcast. We're out of here.