From Truck Schools to Trucking Careers: Expert Advice, with Leo Barros

Insightful Tips on Choosing Trucking Schools and Employers with Leo Barros


Join us this week on the Trucking Risk and Insurance Podcast as we chat with Leo Barros from TruckNews. 

Leo shares his personal experience and advice on how to choose the best truck driver training programs and select the right trucking companies to work for. Learn how his unique journey from truck driver to media professional has given him a distinct perspective on the industry. 

This episode covers the importance of comprehensive training, the role of finishing programs, the impact of government regulations like the MELT program, and the future of truck driving amid immigration changes. Stay tuned for valuable insights!

Contact Leo Barros: leo@newcom.ca
trucknews.com

Your Hosts:
John Farquhar
Summit Risk Solutions: summitrisksolutions.ca
1 226 802-2762
John@summitrisksolutions.ca


Chris Harris
Safety Dawg Inc: safetydawg.com
Chris@SafetyDawg.com
1 905 973 7056




00:00 Introduction to Trucking Risk and Insurance Podcast
00:29 Meet Leo Barris: From Truck Driver to Journalist
01:40 Leo's Truck Driver Training Experience
04:42 The Importance of Finishing Programs
15:36 Choosing the Right Truck Driving School
21:09 Challenges and Realities of Truck Driving
22:24 Impact of Immigration on Trucking
29:36 Advice for Aspiring Truck Drivers
30:59 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Keeping it Safety Dawg Simple!
#trucksafety #truckinsurance #truckpodcast

Do you need a "Truck Driver Safety Policy?" Get it today! https://safetydawg.com/policy

Transcript

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1: 0:00

We are talking to Leo Barris from Truck News about truck driver training, truck schools, how to pick a trucking company. That's this week on the Trucking Risk and Insurance podcast. Stay tuned, Leo gives his personal advice on how to pick a school and your future employer. That's next on the Trucking Risk and Insurance podcast. Let's go! Welcome to the Trekking Risk and Insurance Podcast. Leo, welcome to the Trucking Risk and Insurance Podcast. Can you start off by telling us a little bit about yourself? And I'm curious. I know you were a truck driver at one point. Now you're in media. How does that all link together? So who's

Leo Barros, TruckNews: 0:44

your

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1: 0:44

employer? First

Leo Barros, TruckNews: 0:45

of all? Hi. Uh, my name is Leo Barus. I'm the associate editor of trucknews. com. Um, my, uh, employer is Newcommedia. So, I've been a journalist for about 25 years. Um, I worked in the print media for a long time. Um, I worked in editing, I wrote a bit on the side and then one fine day I said, let's take a chance and drive a truck. So I got my CDL, I, uh, drove long haul and then as I was doing that, I found this, uh, job popped up and, uh, these guys took me in. So now I've been working here ever since. It's been three and a half years.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1: 1:29

Oh, cool. Wow. That's it. I thought you were, you were with Truck News a lot longer.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions: 1:35

No.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1: 1:37

Oh, okay. Well,

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions: 1:38

there you go.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1: 1:39

Welcome. How did, I'm curious because we're going to talk about truck driver training and everything. How did your training work out? What are your memories from that? If it's only, what, four years ago then?

Leo Barros, TruckNews: 1:52

Yeah, it's pretty fresh. I, I got into a finishing program with one of the major carriers here in Canada and I got some fantastic training. They had a very good finishing program, so I trained for almost eight weeks, eight, nine weeks with them. We did in yard training, we did, uh, city training. The pre trip is something that I'll never forget. It was so thorough that up to this day I can do a pre trip and it will be a real good pre trip. They were really good to me. A good carrier, very safe carrier. The training was awesome. So it was, uh, in yard, city driving, and then you move on to the highway with a trainer for a few weeks and they grade you as you go along. And then finally they hand you the keys to a truck and say, off you go. But they keep you within about 500 miles from the base. So you would do two, three day trips and back and forth. So it was pretty good. So I got to drive a lot in, um, uh, outside. So it was mostly into the U S kind of work.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1: 3:02

Right. But only 500 mile trips, which is about 10 hours out.

Leo Barros, TruckNews: 3:08

Well, 500 mile to 600 mile. Various areas. So you would be going as far down south as maybe Kentucky. You'd be going to Chicago. You could be sent up into Northern Ontario. You'd be going to, I've been up to Thunder Bay, been to almost, uh, I think Quebec City and this was all during the winter. So I got a good taste of it.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions: 3:35

Yes. Highway

Leo Barros, TruckNews: 3:37

17. Highway 17 in the wintertime is Not for the faint of heart.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions: 3:42

No.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1: 3:44

Yeah. Highway 17. And I, I used to drive it in the car and in the winter I would avoid it. I had customers. Up in the Sioux. So I would go to Michigan to get to the Sioux. Yeah,

Leo Barros, TruckNews: 4:00

because at, at night you'd have trucks flashing past you with a couple of inches to spare between the mirrors. Right. It's that close. There is no shoulder on the sides for miles. Right. Right.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1: 4:12

So, yeah,

Leo Barros, TruckNews: 4:12

so it gave me a good taste of what things were. Um, uh, yeah,

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1: 4:18

yeah, no, it's really, I think, unique that a media person, a writer, uh, has. their tractor trailer license and actually went through a truck driving school, went through a mentorship program, and that gives you a very unique perspective, I believe, on our industry. What do you think about the MELT program? So

Leo Barros, TruckNews: 4:47

personally, I think it helps you drive a truck, but it doesn't train you enough to be a proper truck driver. You need a finishing program. You need, you need those extra hours where somebody is helping you out saying you should be doing this. You should not be doing that. And, and my point is if you're going to be hauling, um, 80, 000 pounds or more, 72 feet long down a highway. You need to be trained a lot more than that.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1: 5:18

And do you, who do you think should have the responsibility? Should it be, um, I mean, MELT is government regulated. So should the government regulate more training or is the current system now where a truck driving school produces a product, basically, that's what you are. And then the trucking companies finish you.

Leo Barros, TruckNews: 5:42

So I would like to go into something that I, I wrote a story about, um, a couple of years ago. So PEI has a trekking or trucking sector council that they have there. They ran a fantastic program where they were funding truck drivers, but the program was so good where you as a aspiring truck driver would go to a company or a carrier saying, Hey, I want to drive a truck. They would vet you. They would vet you and say, okay, this could work. This he or she is is a good fit for our Company, they would give you a letter, you take it and go to the Trucking Sector Council, and they would then, they had a couple of schools in this program, the school would then, would have another chat with the driver and say, okay, you come on, you get trained for Four weeks, sorry, eight weeks, you get trained, you answer your test. And while the training is on, the carrier gets feedback every week, right? As to how the driver is doing. At the end of eight weeks, you, and if the person had issues with, let's say, backing or shifting, then they would give them additional training in that. And, um, At the end of those eight weeks, you answer your, your test. If you passed your road test, you would do four weeks of internship at the carrier that was going to hire you. So you get the full package. This, so in my point of view, I think. The carrier should be more involved in this process. If you want a good truck driver, if you want your insurance rates to drop, if you want to have a safe company, you need to have well trained drivers. You can't just take somebody who's new and give him or her the keys of your truck and say, go ahead. So I think it should be both. It, it, it, the industry has to step forward also and say, these are going to be my employees down the road. You can't say the government is going to mandate something. Most likely it's not going to work.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions: 7:53

Well, we, we, we have this problem when it comes to government regulation as it is now. You have one side of the industry that goes, we have too many damn regulations now. It's ridiculous. And then you have the others going, Oh, well, they should just regulate that. They should just take care of that. And it's like, well, hang on. You can't have it both ways. You as the, Industry representative have to invest in your people and your organization as well.

Leo Barros, TruckNews: 8:19

And I think the market decides as to what is happening. You can do whatever you want. In the end, it's the dollar that counts either way. But then if you want a safer industry, you have to invest a little bit more. Yeah.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1: 8:33

Yeah. The, uh, I like the idea of I wish more trucking companies would buy into the fact that they need a strong and very robust, uh, driver finishing program, because I think the government has done an okay job, um, with MELT, you know, there's many improvements I could suggest, but it was a good starting point, is my point, but trucking companies Need to finish the training.

Leo Barros, TruckNews: 9:09

So, so I have this thought process where talking about melt, right? So let's talk Ontario melt is 103 and a half hours of in cab, in yard, in truck training, and you add two days of air brake training, which in total comes up to about 120 hours. If you divide that into days, that becomes, um, 15 days. If a person is training eight hours a day, if you're cutting down to four hours a day, that becomes a month long worth of training. So that is, would you want somebody driving a semi trailer one month's training, once they get that piece of plastic saying that they are a truck driver down the road. If you break it down to a small amount, that's what it is. It's a month's worth of training. That's it.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions: 10:03

Right. Right.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1: 10:04

Yeah, or it's roughly two weeks of full time training. It is. It is. If we want truck driving to be recognized as a trade, how does that compare to a carpenter, to an electrician, to John's favorite subject, to a hairdresser?

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions: 10:26

Hairdresser. Yeah, exactly. And

Leo Barros, TruckNews: 10:29

if, if my, I have another point of view, where? When people are being trained for so four wheelers when people are being trained for their g for when they start at g1 Here and they go to g2 and then they go to g. Yeah, so it's a graded process So why not the same for a truck drive right and yes, and if it's a four wheeler driver Why aren't they thought about how long does it take a fully loaded semi to stop at highway speeds of 65 miles an hour? I would say get these students to a full Football field. Make them walk it up and down and say, this is how long it takes. It should be part of the training. Then what are the blind spots in a truck? Because a truck driver is keeping space in the front of this truck because he needs that much space to stop. You don't dart in. You don't sit by his side for miles on end. He has to keep checking that he won't hit you or you are on your phone and you might wear into him. These, these kinds of things have to be taught to four wheelers that will help road safety as well.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions: 11:35

Exactly. Be familiar with your surroundings better than what you are. I just, I just completed my, uh, my M2 road test for my motorcycle license. So I did my, my M1, um, And the training program two years ago, and I just completed the second phase of that. So now I am a fully fledged M license driver. So everybody watch out when I'm on the highway on my motorcycle. But it's so interesting because that's uh, that training program, that first training program we were, we were trained in, it was a two day session. And it was interesting because they taught you Nobody sees you. You are so small. You are on this motorcycle, you know, on a highway, you're mixing with cars and trucks and whatnot. And it really helps you to think differently. And I've talked to more motorcycle drivers who are actually truck drivers as well. And their thought process in a truck is much different now. With their motorcycle training, right? So I wanted to go back to something real quick, Leo, when we were talking, when you were talking about the melt program and the amount of time it takes to complete that process,

Leo Barros, TruckNews: 12:43

right?

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions: 12:43

What are the hours as far as in cab only with Behind the wheel driving up and down the road in that training program. How many, how many hours are involved in that one? Do you know?

Leo Barros, TruckNews: 12:54

I'm not certain. It's I think it's about a So the road is about half the time that you get, so it's, uh, in, um, it's in the school, it's in the yard, and then it's in the cab. So it's about a third each. I'm not too sure.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions: 13:12

Okay. So, so when you talk about the training program being all of two weeks long total combined, if you went full at it every day, you know, you'd be lucky to actually get a week's worth of training behind the wheel. Out of all of that, you know, which yeah, it just kind of goes, Oh, I'm not sure that we can build the skill level that we need to be in the, in the muscle memory on what we need to do. And the better understanding of all these potential hazards that we've got on the road in a week's time.

Leo Barros, TruckNews: 13:45

And most schools will not do a full day's worth of training. I think they cap it at four hours because people get tired. They will not go beyond that. It's mostly It's mostly an hour or two, but sometimes it's, it's, it's a two hour period because there are other people like when we were training for pre trip inspection, there would be three or four guys doing pre trip. So you'd be there for a couple of hours, right? But I think also when you talk in terms of insurance and risk, backing is a big skill, right? And some schools will train drivers. depending on the drive test center where they're planning to go. For example, if you're doing it in Hamilton, when I trained, there used to be only offset backing over there. So it's either from the left side or the right side. So schools would just train you for offset backing. That was it. No other backing. Now, once you go onto the road and you come to a truck stop and there are trucks over there, what are you, what are you going to do? It's difficult, or if you go into a crowded dock and you have to do, you have to do a blindside back, God help you. So these kind of things, um, I think only can be trained. Uh, people can learn from, uh, uh, finishing programs where a little more time is. And also when you do city driving, you get a good feel of these kinds of things because it's tight, tight turns, tight streets. I, I know of some, um. schools that spend a week with drivers just doing turns left turn right turn all day long like all uh for an hour or two each time they come which really helps because you have to think big when you think of a truck right

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1: 15:36

yeah yeah well what advice would you have for a an A new student or a person who doesn't yet have their truck driver license, what should they look for first of all in a school and then we can get on to what should they look for in an employer. But what would you say about a school? How would you pick a school?

Leo Barros, TruckNews: 16:00

Cheaper is never the best. Right? You get what you pay for. Exactly. Yes. So true. You have to be aware of what you're spending is an investment. It's not just a course. It's an investment on your future. Um, So you'll get some really cheap schools that might not train you properly. You might get the odd school that trains you properly. A lot of people go to their comfort levels where they feel comfortable in terms of language, in terms of maybe culture, so they get dragged into that. I would say go to a school that is well established. Do your homework. And most schools will let you go around and check stuff around. So if you see everything is being done above board, if they're not training in some parking lot and the truck is parked on the road, then you know that, you know, you're not going to get something. What you paid for. So you have to be aware of what you're getting yourself into. And there are a lot of cases of guys who go to these small schools. They, um, fail the test a couple of times, then they have to re spend or re train, spend more money, more time getting trained properly and then passing. So,

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions: 17:16

I was going to say, and I imagine there's carriers out there that are aware of these cheap schools, you know, because I know as an employer, I'd be wanting to do my research to make sure that when a driver walks in and says, Oh, I was trained at this school and go, Oh gosh, it's going to take me a lot longer to get you where I need you to be because I know that school doesn't give you that much training.

Leo Barros, TruckNews: 17:39

So just to name a few carriers that actually have their own schools. So you've got, um, Kriska has got their own school that runs through. You've got Challenger that has got a fantastic school. Musket Transport has got Chet, right? These are the big ones. And, and they hire those people. Most times they will try and hire the students that pass through their programs, which they know what they are in for. Um, and a lot of other carriers I know have got like a short list of schools that they'll hire drivers from. Maybe the driver has. In the end, it boils down to the road test that they will have and then most times a pre trip will tell you if the guy knows what he's talking about.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions: 18:29

I remember, I remember, uh, it was, it was a client of mine, uh, when I was at the Guarantee and it was a motor carrier. There were about a hundred trucks, um, and really great opportunity. They worked with a school specifically. And when they handpicked a student, they would get involved with that student early. Like just as they were getting into the course and they would say, okay, during your training course, if you do a half day, the rest of that day, we want you to come to our yard. We'll pay you and I want you to go around the yard and work with drivers doing pre trip inspection with drivers. I want you to work with the mechanics to understand this. And if there's a local guy in the yard and he's going to do some shunt work, I want you to jump in with him and go right. And they paid the driver for this. And then what was really cool, I'm getting a little far here, but what was really cool is. When they successfully completed that training, they were then enrolled in a continuous finishing program, but they offered them if you stayed with the company for a year, they would pay for half that training program for you. Plus they paid you to come to their yard and learn more.

Leo Barros, TruckNews: 19:32

Right. And what I found in, uh, in PEI, there was no contract after those drivers were trained. So it was just a handshake. And people stayed on. People stayed on. People didn't leave. Now here in, um, in some other carriers, they actually, um, penalize you. So they say you sign a two year contract. If you leave at the end of one year, you pay X amount. If you leave, you know, that's how it works. It's not a big thumb, but it's still, uh, because they are training and they are investing in you. But most people do not leave because it's an investment and they realize that this company is safe, it's good. And if, if, if you can run the miles that you think get you a good sum of cash by the end of the month, you, you will stay with them. Done. They're out. And just to go on, there are other carriers that will use long haul drivers for local work. Right. When they are in these finishing programs. So what happens is their paycheck is really small. It leads to frustration. It leads to anger. So there has to be a balance.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1: 20:41

Well, every, most drivers have a family and they got to bring home a paycheck. It has to be. A reasonable paycheck or else they're either going to switch employers or they leave the industry because they can't make enough money to feed the family. Right. I don't, I think it's pretty simple. Drivers need a fair wage. All drivers. Yeah. And when

Leo Barros, TruckNews: 21:09

you talk about wages, some, some folks say drivers earn a good living. You have to understand that they are doing two jobs. They are working 16 hours a day, 14 to 16 hours a day. You will make quite a bit of money, even if you're earning a little over minimum wage, because you're earning times too. So these guys are working 14, 16 hours a day. They might not drive that long, but there are tasks assigned. So once, you know, hours of service, you'll see people working 14 hours a day. Local drivers don't drive that long. Less than 11 to 12 hours a day. They do, you know, they work at least for that long. So, and, and then you talk about resets, which is 36 hours. So you expect somebody who has worked all these hours, 70 hour weeks to be fresh and ready in a day and a half to go back on the road. And, you know, rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat. These are human beings too. So sometimes when you talk about the driver and you say, you know, oh, he's unsafe. He may be tired. He may be exhausted, but he keeps on going. So there are always two sides to that coin.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions: 22:20

Yeah. Yeah. Well, you, you, you'd mentioned about new drivers. Um, are you seeing, we, we know we're having an influx of immigration coming into Canada and whatnot. And I know I've seen a number of international, uh, students actually that are starting to get their license. Are, are, what are you seeing in that aspect there, Leo?

Leo Barros, TruckNews: 22:41

So now that TAP has kind of been turned off with the new rules in which limits the work permits on these students. But prior to that, a lot of students used to come in. So they saw trucking as a path to immigration and staying on in Canada. So we have to understand whether people want to drive or they need to drive, right? Right. So you get a lot of The students don't, may not want to drive, but they need to drive to stay on in Canada. Right. So, uh, international students used to come for their programs. They would get their G license and then move on to trucking. A lot of them did. They saw it as a path to move on. Now with the new immigration rules set in and, uh, it's harder for them. Uh, down the road it could affect the pipeline of drivers because If you look at the demographic of drivers right now, you and me know who's driving the trucks right now. Yeah. You're mostly, you know, people who have immigrated here and that's why, um, so I was at, um, um, a truck show in Texas, uh, last week and you could see families of people driving trucks and, you know, grandkids, you know, their granddad drove, their dad drove, their mom drove. That kind of stuff is not seen here in Canada anymore. And from what I see, it's mostly immigrants who are doing this kind of work. Just to be fair, who wants to work 70 hours a week? You just come home, do your laundry, pack your food, go back out again. Yep, exactly. Where is your family time? People talk about work life balance. It is hard. So, so when you talk about that, so, uh, so international students were feeding the pipeline. Um, in fact, I did a story about three or four months ago where trucking schools in the Brampton, Mississauga area were talking about

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1: 24:59

I read that story. Yup.

Leo Barros, TruckNews: 25:01

Yeah. So we are still to see what's going to happen and I think, uh, things will become clearer in a few months. But yes, that was the case up to a few months ago.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1: 25:15

Yeah. The immigration in Canada has It'll have an interesting effect on trucking and I'm not sure exactly what that effect will be, but it'll be something to watch and I'm sure we can count on Leo to keep us informed in truck news.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions: 25:32

Well, I know there's no doubt in what a lot of the clientele that I've seen and gone out to visit and whatnot during my risk evaluation visits. And, you know, you really do have that mix of drivers who want to drive truck. They want to make it a career, whereas you have those that just need to drive truck. It's a quick means, um, to make money. And it's a quick means in order to get my permanent residency card. And then it's those drivers that will take and go, got my card, I'm good to go, I'm out of here. And they'll go do something else. Now they'll go pursue, you know, the career that they're looking for now that they've, they can relax and go, okay, I'm in Canada now, I can move on and do something else. And I think there's a large volume of those drivers that need to drive, don't want to drive.

Leo Barros, TruckNews: 26:19

Yes. And that's like, that's what is happening. And I, I, I'm not sure how it's going to affect, uh, future of the industry as such, because, um, we don't know, right.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1: 26:36

Yeah, no, it's I did. Yeah. Sorry. I've got so many things going on in my mind, but one follow up question or a question or a follow up from the question that I asked you about picking a truck driving school. Yes. Just going back to that topic as a new. Would you pick the, because you said most trucking companies or certainly I believe the elite trucking companies have allegiances or a stronger ties to truck driving schools. Should I pick the trucking company that I want to work for first and then ask them, Hey, what schools would you recommend? Um, or do I pick the school first?

Leo Barros, TruckNews: 27:26

So that's a good point. So, um, that would work as well. I don't think people see that far down the road. So people would look at the school first, right? And, uh, to be fair, uh, during COVID, people were hiring left, right, and center. Now the hiring is on, but it's more picky. So as a new driver, you might not get the fleet that you Want to drive for. You will have to make to, uh, also it depends where you're going to get in. Um, the smaller companies will most likely make you run team. Team driving is a whole different ballgame. And it's scary sometimes because if you're new and you've been told to go to, let's say, California, you're driving at night on roads, you don't even know. There's always lack of sleep. There is the fear that your fellow driver, like if I'm, I'm experienced and I'm mentoring somebody new, I won't be able to sleep well in the truck. So, um, It's difficult to find a job that you want right now. So some companies are still hiring, but not a lot. And it's difficult to find the job that you want. So you might have to just go with what you get.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1: 28:50

Yeah. And right now, as we tape this interview, I believe. that we are in a trucking recession at the moment. So you're right. Hiring is not like it was a year ago.

Leo Barros, TruckNews: 29:04

No, it is not. And, uh, so companies can pick and choose the cream of the crop. So they, if they were saying that, Oh, I needed one year of experience. Now they'll say, I need two years of experience, or they could say, Oh, have you run these routes? I can, I can only offer you two week runs. I can't offer you something that you'll come home every week and you have to accept that kind of stuff.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions: 29:32

Here's what I got. This is what you got to pick from. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I do believe, and I like, I like the way you answered that question, but I do believe that putting as a new driver, putting yourself out there and go introduce yourself. to a trucking company that interests you, right? And then talking with them. There's opportunities for succession planning. So if you have a great view with that motor carrier, even before you've gotten your license, and they steer you on the right path to say, well, here's the school that we deal with. And if you say, well, can I stay in communication that while I'm doing my course, maybe there's opportunity, I could learn, I could come over and do some. You know, uh, extra hours or something like that, there might be opportunity that these folks are going to see how you progress and go, you know what, I got two guys who are going to retire in the next year and I need to replace them. And here's somebody that's really got forward thinking, wants to make a career out of this. There's somebody I'd rather take on than the guy that comes in and he's got a year experience and I, you know, haven't even built.

Leo Barros, TruckNews: 30:38

Now that is, that thought is really good. If somebody had told me that, it would have really helped, so that point is very valid.

John Farquhar, Summit Risk Solutions: 30:48

Well, and I think it shows you, you're now the driver that wants to drive truck, not needs to drive truck.

Leo Barros, TruckNews: 30:55

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1: 30:59

That is probably a great place to wrap this one up. There's one subject we didn't get to. So Leo, you're going to have to, uh, come back on the, uh, the trucking risk and insurance podcast, because I do want to pick your brain about truck driver mentoring or finishing programs. So we'll have to have you back for that episode, but last word to you. Your contact info will be down below, but what word of advice would you have for a new person picking a school or picking a trucking company?

Leo Barros, TruckNews: 31:38

I would say first, you would want to drive a truck, not need to drive a truck. Second, you pick the school that trains you well. You go to the school, check things out. And as John said, you could be even, I think even one step ahead. Go to a carrier and say, what do I need to do? Which schools do I need to go to? And work your way from there. You have to have a plan in mind. And you have to also be willing to, you have to know that this, this job is not for all. It's a tough life. It's dangerous. You have to, uh, stay away from home and your family. So put all those thoughts in your mind first, prepare, and then choose what you're going to do.

Chris Harris, Safety Dawg 1: 32:22

Beautiful. Leo from Truck News and Newcom. Thanks so much for coming on the show.